[Cascade]

avoscill, on 2014-January-11, 17:52, said:

Now I'm again puzzled, for responder will have to pass with, say,
♠xxx
♥KQx
♦Kxxx
♣xxx

because he doesn't stop spades, or
♠xx
♥KQxxxx
♦Kxx
♣xx

because not strong enough; and opener too will have to pass, holding
♠AKx
♥JTxx
♦Qxx
♣QJx

because he needs 18-19 hcp. To me It doesn't sound good to let them play 1♠, with strength equally divided.

Does this treatment have something to do with probabilities? Maybe, on this auction, opener is going to be 18-19 balanced more often than 12-14 balanced?

Definitely in your second example you can make a takeout double then bid hearts showing extra length next time if appropriate.

The first example is more difficult. Some play that a negative double is a 100% guarantee of four hearts in which case you cannot double. If that is not your agreement then you may be able to double.

Alternatively, I would consider raising to 2minor but my view maybe very non-standard as I am used to playing four-card suits and weak no trump so I know that partner has length in the minor and if balanced extra strength. Your actual example I may choose to not raise to 2C with three small.

You other point that it doesnt seem right to defend 1S with points divided is flawed. Unless the opponents are particularly weak it is quite unlikely they are playing 1S with a good fit - the partner who is almost marked with some values would have raised. If they dont have a fit there is an appreciable chance that you do not have a fit. Unless you can play 1NT, and 1NT is a small target, you may end up playing a contract at a higher level without a fit - so taking them out of trouble and getting into trouble yourself.

[avoscill]

Endymion77, on 2014-January-11, 18:33, said:

He can bid a negative double here but pass is defensible, if opener can't balance we probably can't make anything.


Here, responder definitely bids a negative double and pulls 1NT/2♣/2♦ to 2♥, or raises 2♥ to game with a 7 loser hand (some would only invite though).

Doesn't the negative double promise 4 cards in the unbid major? And why couldn't NS make 1NT, with 21 hcp inline?

In the second example responder may indeed double, but just invert hearts with diamonds, and he can't pull opener's 2♥ rebid any more. And he may have only two hearts...

[Endymion77]

avoscill, on 2014-January-12, 08:54, said:

Doesn't the negative double promise 4 cards in the unbid major? And why couldn't NS make 1NT, with 21 hcp inline?

Quite often, but not always. In this case, all weak opener rebids (1NT/2♣/2♦/2♥) would be a playable spot and the only time when a negative double with only 3 hearts might turn out to be a problem is if opener is strong with 4 hearts and jumps. However, KQx is not such a bad holding and opener will often be short in spades in this case (unless he has precisely the 18-19 NT hand with 4 hearts) so you should be playing in hearts anyway. Of course, like I said you can also pass and wait for partner to re-open but then you have a different problem - if it goes pass-pass and partner re-opens with a double, what would you bid? I think you have to settle for 2♣ which might easily not be the best spot (mildly said).

avoscill, on 2014-January-12, 08:54, said:

In the second example responder may indeed double, but just invert hearts with diamonds, and he can't pull opener's 2♥ rebid any more. And he may have only two hearts...

With long diamonds instead of hearts you should pass and hope to be able to compete later. If your diamonds are stronger (KQJ10xx for example), you can double and pull 2♥ to 3♦ but if partner jumps to 3 or even 4 hearts it would be irritating.

[Endymion77]

avoscill, on 2014-January-12, 08:54, said:

And why couldn't NS make 1NT, with 21 hcp inline?

1♠ is an overcall with some preemptive quality so you should strive to make it with any excuse. Sometimes, you can make something but you simply can't bid it. In the long run, reopening 1NT with 12-14 balanced just because you might be able to make it when 1♠ also makes simply won't be profitable. It's much more important to be able to show the 18-19 hand without going too high than to worry about defending 1♠ when points are evenly divided and opps have no fit.

[aguahombre]

endymion77 has given good posts on this. But, there is more.

When Responder has some points but doesn't act after the overcall, he will invariably do it slowly (break in tempo), giving the opener with his 12-14 flat more reason to believe his side should continue to compete. Although hard to prove Opener read something, the reopening with a flatty is so unusual the use of UI is suspected.