[jillybean]

I had a great game yesterday with a new partner, also a Kiwi.
We had discussed the CC in some detail but as expected, there were some surprises. I had a puppet wobble but managed to fall on my feet.
Then there was this hand. I won't give your our auction until the end of the discussion.

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[DavidKok]

Your hand is known as the Bridge World Death Hand - strong (approximately 16+, though there's no exact cutoff) with 6 cards in your opened suit and 3-card support for partner's major. Without special agreements there's no satisfactory rebid - 3♥ eats up all the space and makes it difficult to find a 5-3 fit in spades, 2♥ is an underbid, 2♠ is an underbid and may show four spades, 3♠ really should be 4-card support, and a fake strong jump shift (such as 3♣) both oversells the hand and fails to show the shape.

Personally I take solace in the fact that the hand is such a well-known problem that it has its own name. If nothing is right, at least other people will have the same problem, and my guess won't be much worse than theirs. I think without agreements you might do well to bid 3♥ here, though any of the other options I mentioned might well be the winner on this individual deal (even 2♠!).

[jillybean]

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We took the low road.

[Cyberyeti]

4♦ ?

[DavidKok]

My favourite bidding topic!

What would 1♥-2♠ have been? For me it's weak, approximately 4-8 with 6(+)♠ and 2(-)♥. This means that the delayed auction 1♥-1♠; <some bananas>-2♠ is invitational, 9-11. Opposite that I can't rule out slam just yet!
In my experience most people are not comfortable with jump responses, no matter what they show. As a result they push the weak hand into 1♠...2♠ and the invitational hand into 1♠...3♠. This has several ways to lose and, to my knowledge, no ways to gain (as long as you leave the freed up jump response idle).

Now onto the actual deal: we've shown 12-14. We have a 17 that was initially worth a minor downgrade (with soft clubs and wasted diamond king) and became worth an upgrade compared to that (a confirmed spade fit, and our heart top honours are working in a spade contract). There is no way to show partner this hand, we've denied holding it last round. So although I would like to bid 4♦ here to show a slam try opposite the 9-11 range, I think partner shouldn't understand that, and should instead interpret 4♦ as some hand that was worth a serious upgrade opposite the spade length - maybe a 3=7=0=3 with near-solid hearts.

Back on earth I am not sure how confident we should be in partner's range. Sorry, I've been stung by this particular auction a tad too often. I think I'll just bid 4♠, and explain my thoughts at the end of the evening.

[Cyberyeti]

We play it 9-11 without playing the WJS

[jillybean]

Back in 2017 I was playing 1x:2M as a strong jump but now it is weak, if discussed. This has me wondering how we play 1H 1nt 2x 2S

But back to the original question, any other takers?

[mw64ahw]

I assume that's East rebidding not South watching the world go by😎
It's so much easier playing KI5, Zirconia or something similar if that's what you mean by unorthodox meanings in the title.

[jillybean]

mw64ahw, on 2025-June-10, 15:52, said:

I assume that's East rebidding not South watching the world go by😎
It's so much easier playing KI5, Zirconia or something similar if that's what you mean by unorthodox meanings in the title.

good catch, I had rotated the auction but not the hands
If we are thinking KI5, Zerconia, perhaps unexpected, undiscussed meanings is more appropriate.

[johnu]

2♣ new minor forcing will work great!

[jillybean]

johnu, on 2025-June-10, 18:31, said:

2♣ new minor forcing will work great!

A special signal for the Death Hand, brilliant

Knowing this type of hand has caused problems for me previosuly, I went looking for more examples.

2012..Did we really pass with North's hand?

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2010 1♦:1♥ 3♦

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[jillybean]

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[DavidKok]

Looks like a great contract to me. Well done.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2025-June-10, 23:51, said:

Looks like a great contract to me. Well done.

Yeah, but not opposite x/Axx in the minors which is presumably bid the same way.

We use a GF art unbal 2N for the better versions of these hands, so the jump to 3 is limited so we get some distinction of playing strength

[DavidKok]

Cyberyeti, on 2025-June-11, 03:34, said:

Yeah, but not opposite x/Axx in the minors which is presumably bid the same way.

I'm not quite sure I follow. Do you mean ♦Axx, ♣x? Where does the 13th card go? The minors the other way around gives the opps an undisclosed 11-card fit in diamonds and still leaves us with a diamond and 1+ club losers, so no slam.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2025-June-11, 04:33, said:

I'm not quite sure I follow. Do you mean ♦Axx, ♣x? Where does the 13th card go? The minors the other way around gives the opps an undisclosed 11-card fit in diamonds and still leaves us with a diamond and 1+ club losers, so no slam.

No AJ10, AKxxxx, x, Axx rather than K/Q10x in the minors

[DavidKok]

That is a much stronger hand on 1♥-1♠, and a very different problem.