[jillybean]

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[mikeh]

Many years ago the great Grant Baze wrote a Bols Bridge Tip, titled ‘6-5, come alive’, advocating for aggressive bidding with that shape. Obviously there is a significant likelihood of a terrible misfit but you have a very powerful hand opposite an opening bid. It behooves you not to mastermind….tell partner what you have. Yes, it may backfire but bridge is not an by timid bidders….spend some time watching top level bridge on BBO vugraph or read Bridge World tournament reports.

Thus, for me, there’s no real choice. 2C. With luck I’ll be able to complete my description below 3N. I intend to bid hearts twice, even if partner does bid 3N before my third call.

[mw64ahw]

All depends on what partner I'm playing with and what system approach. It could be ♥, ♣ or 1♠ as a game invitational bid playing my Esoteric Unbalanced ♦. With the last option opener responds by showing their shape. Bidding ♥ leaves opener the option to show ♣/♠ long ♦ at a low level. Misfit here we come?

[pilowsky]

1♥, what's the hurry?

[jillybean]

pilowsky, on 2025-January-26, 05:54, said:

1♥, what's the hurry?

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[mikeh]

What’s the hurry to mislead partner? It’s ironic. HB quotes me about the importance of bidding shape yet posts a sequence that has responder bidding 1H rather than 2C…with a powerful playing hand

2C then bidding hearts twice shows a gf hand with 6 clubs and 5 hearts. Guess what we have?

Responding 1H makes for a strained auction in which you can never…and I mean never…show a gf hand with longer clubs than diamonds

Has nobody ever seen partner hold something like Axx Kx Axxxx QJx?

Try reaching 7C intelligently after 1H. Yes, that’s a carefully chosen hand but I hope it at least gets the pilowskys of the world thinking

[pescetom]

mikeh, on 2025-January-26, 12:01, said:

What’s the hurry to mislead partner? It’s ironic. HB quotes me about the importance of bidding shape yet posts a sequence that has responder bidding 1H rather than 2C…with a powerful playing hand

2C then bidding hearts twice shows a gf hand with 6 clubs and 5 hearts. Guess what we have?

Responding 1H makes for a strained auction in which you can never…and I mean never…show a gf hand with longer clubs than diamonds

Has nobody ever seen partner hold something like Axx Kx Axxxx QJx?

Try reaching 7C intelligently after 1H. Yes, that’s a carefully chosen hand but I hope it at least gets the pilowskys of the world thinking

I fully agree that there is no good reason not to start with the clubs here, but maybe one could reach 7C intelligently after 1H on the hand you cite:
1D - 1H
1N - 3C (XYZ)
4C - 4D (CTL)
...
and then it's not difficult to control-bid to 7C.
Admittedly a bit of a stretch, because the East hand merits going through the 2N relay rather than a direct 3C and then the clubs auction is more cramped.
But I think 3C must be 5+ cards and as West I would be happy to raise clubs holding more than my bidding so far promised.

[mw64ahw]

jillybean, on 2025-January-26, 07:21, said:

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I'd rebid ♥ assuming 3♠ shows, so let's see if East has 3♥, a self sustaining suit or other.

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2025-January-26, 15:12, said:

I'd rebid ♥ assuming 3♠ shows, so let's see if East has 3♥, a self sustaining suit or other.

Oh, what a wonderful sequence. Opener will/should raise 3H with Hx, where H is K or Q unless he has an obvious alternative. xx Kx AKQxxx QJx. Assuming one chose, reasonably, not to open 1N, a 3D rebid looks normal. 4H might fetch but we’d all prefer to be in 5C. AQx x AKQxxx Qxx. 3N is ok, but I’d rather be in a club slam. Of course, having responded 1H we have already decided that partner is irrelevant to the decision making process. If we land on our feet it’s because we’re lucky. There is the saying ‘better lucky than good’ but I prefer ‘better lucky and good’. Good being describing my hand to partner rather than going out of my way to conceal my hand. We have a full opening hand with a suit AKxxxx abdcwevtginkmitbgood bridge never to show it?

[mikeh]

pescetom, on 2025-January-26, 12:31, said:

I fully agree that there is no good reason not to start with the clubs here, but maybe one could reach 7C intelligently after 1H on the hand you cite:
1D - 1H
1N - 3C (XYZ)
4C - 4D (CTL)
...
and then it's not difficult to control-bid to 7C.
Admittedly a bit of a stretch, because the East hand merits going through the 2N relay rather than a direct 3C and then the clubs auction is more cramped.
But I think 3C must be 5+ cards and as West I would be happy to raise clubs holding more than my bidding so far promised.

I have to laugh. You invent a sequence that, in normal methods, shows a strong 5=5 (and positively denies longer clubs than hearts in any non-canapé method) and then you have responder making his first cuebid on a void. That’s inconsistent with what I think is fairly normal cuebidding. If one’s first cuebid is in opener’s original suit, that should be a high card control….A or King…so as to allow partner to see that, say, KQxxx is good, as it is opposite Ax and as it most assuredly isn’t opposite a void.

And even then all you can do is speculate about how the auction should go. If I held Kx QJx in partner’s ‘strong suits’ I’d be committing to hearts. Jxx Kx AQxxx QJx. I’d much rather play 4H than 5C and I’d be interested in a heart slam opposite something like x AQJxx Kx AKxxx ….so our responder hand would be disappointing….not to mention impossible on the auction

It can be difficult to maintain objectivity when we’re given actual hands…especially if our initial choice of action is being criticized. I’m not immune to that issue.

[mw64ahw]

mikeh, on 2025-January-26, 15:42, said:

Oh, what a wonderful sequence. Opener will/should raise 3H with Hx, where H is K or Q unless he has an obvious alternative. xx Kx AKQxxx QJx. Assuming one chose, reasonably, not to open 1N, a 3D rebid looks normal. 4H might fetch but we'd all prefer to be in 5C. AQx x AKQxxx Qxx. 3N is ok, but I'd rather be in a club slam. Of course, having responded 1H we have already decided that partner is irrelevant to the decision making process. If we land on our feet it's because we're lucky. There is the saying 'better lucky than good' but I prefer 'better lucky and good'. Good being describing my hand to partner rather than going out of my way to conceal my hand. We have a full opening hand with a suit AKxxxx abdcwevtginkmitbgood bridge never to show it?

Agreed, maybe not the best sequence, but that's the bid you've been left with and 6♣ isnt necessarily lost yet if you apply some logic after West's next bid.
This sort of sequence is one of the reasons I play an unbalanced ♦ with 1♠ rather than 2♣ because it enables a larger range of shapes to be shown more precisely. Now
1♦-1♠ GI
2♦ 6+♦ denies 4-card side suit - 3♥ 5♥5+♣ short ♦

[Cyberyeti]

If you bid 1♥ rather than 2♣, you're bidding it as a 2515.

I'm not sure honestly what I'd bid, the peculiar problem we would have is that over 1♦-2♣-2♦ 2♥ would be artificial inv+, 2N would be NF with 4+♥, 3♥ would be a splinter, and it's going to be difficult after 2♥ to find a 5-3 heart fit.

[DavidKok]

 mikeh, on 2025-January-26, 15:55, said:

I have to laugh. You invent a sequence that, in normal methods, shows a strong 5=5 (and positively denies longer clubs than hearts in any non-canapé method)

It is common to the point of being standard locally where I play that GF 5=5 rebids 2NT artificial, and then shows the second suit over the forced 3♣ relay. This frees up the direct jumps to 3m for something else - normally hands with exactly 4M, no longer interested in the major, now looking for a slam in the bid minor suit. This is particularly useful for partnerships that agreed to show the major ahead of even a 5cm in a GF hand - a style I don't prefer, but does see play.
I'm not convinced a 5=6 type hand should bid this way. At the same time, I think it excessive to laugh at the auction, especially as it seems you are unfamiliar with the method.
The rest of the proposed auction contains plenty of other debatable points, maybe that's what you meant instead?