[manudude03]

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Teams, w/w how many spades do you bid?

[MrAce]

4♠

I bid 3♠ when it is 5332

[kuhchung]

MrAce, on 2015-February-05, 16:57, said:

4♠

I bid 3♠ when it is 5332

try it in bigger font. it's really quite satisfying

[Hanoi5]

At this vulnerability I don't see any reason not to bid 4.

[Phil]

If I could write down a textbook 4S call it would look like this.

[manudude03]

I felt this was a pretty obvious 4S bid myself. Partner however was not amused to say the least after it went for 800. And no, slam wasn't bid at the other table.

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[gszes]

manudude03, on 2015-February-06, 08:04, said:

I felt this was a pretty obvious 4S bid myself. Partner however was not amused to say the least after it went for 800. And no, slam wasn't bid at the other table.

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remind p what a 4s jump looks like and maybe they will overcall better:))))))

[helene_t]

Advertisment for short suit totals instead of total trumps

[ArtK78]

It takes extremely good defense to get 4♠ for 800. Unless the defense plays exactly 1 round of hearts before the minor suits are eliminated, declarer can duck a heart to East and avoid the loss of 3 heart tricks. And if the defense plays 2 rounds of hearts, declarer only loses 2 heart tricks. -500 won't be a triumph, but it is not a disaster, and it is likely to be duplcated at the other table.

In any event, a clear 4♠ bid by South.

[PhilKing]

ArtK78, on 2015-February-06, 08:46, said:

Unless I am missing something 4♠ should not go for 800.

In any event, a clear 4♠ bid by South.

Defence can play one round of hearts early to break up the ending, but in practice a decent declarer will get out for down three most of the time.

[manudude03]

Partner didn't play optimally, but it was heading for 800 regardless of what he did. East led the ♦A and then switched to ♣J4 after which West won a third round of clubs before switching to hearts. Partner decided to put up the king at this point, but even if he doesn't, East can just exit a diamond or a trump.

[Fluffy]

My thoughts for only 3 spades: Our ODR is low, ♠A is neutral and the rest is nothing. If the strength is something like 17-23 +140 can be the par score (or +100). if it is right to bid 4♠ partner can bid them.

[mikeh]

Fluffy, on 2015-February-06, 17:16, said:

if it is right to bid 4♠ partner can bid them.

No he can't

A 3♠ bid non-vul doesn't look like this hand. And partner should NEVER play us for Axxxx in trump and a stiff when we bid 3♠.

Not only is the 5th trump often an offensive asset, in that it means one fewer side card while affording, usually, more flexibility in the play, but and critically it is a defensive negative, weakening the defensive potential of the combined hands, something that is as big a part of making save decisions as is estimating our tricks on offence. We don't want to save with defence. Axxx opposite KQxxx is far different defensively than Axxxx opposite KQxxx.

I usually respect your views, even when I disagree (and often I agree), but this one is way off base imo.

[Cyberyeti]

gszes, on 2015-February-06, 08:21, said:

remind p what a 4s jump looks like and maybe they will overcall better:))))))

This would be my way of thinking, a balanced 8 count is not what I consider a 1♠ overcall to look like.

[Fluffy]

mikeh, on 2015-February-06, 18:20, said:

No he can't

A 3♠ bid non-vul doesn't look like this hand. And partner should NEVER play us for Axxxx in trump and a stiff when we bid 3♠.

Not only is the 5th trump often an offensive asset, in that it means one fewer side card while affording, usually, more flexibility in the play, but and critically it is a defensive negative, weakening the defensive potential of the combined hands, something that is as big a part of making save decisions as is estimating our tricks on offence. We don't want to save with defence. Axxx opposite KQxxx is far different defensively than Axxxx opposite KQxxx.

I usually respect your views, even when I disagree (and often I agree), but this one is way off base imo.

So partner is foced to pass after we bid 3♠?

Partner is never playing for this crap if we bid 4♠, so arguing that this is not a perfect 3♠ is not really valid.

[MrAce]

Fluffy, on 2015-February-06, 19:34, said:

Partner is never playing for this crap if we bid 4♠,

Why not? Everyone except you thinks this is a textbook 4♠. Thus it must be expected hand for a lot of people. Never is an overstatement, don't you think? Tbh when my pd bids 4M over my 1M, I almost always imagine a hand similar to this.

[Fluffy]

MrAce, on 2015-February-07, 03:07, said:

Why not? Everyone except you thinks this is a textbook 4♠. Thus it must be expected hand for a lot of people. Never is an overstatement, don't you think? Tbh when my pd bids 4M over my 1M, I almost always imagine a hand similar to this.

At least I said never, not NEVER for my overstatement

[gnasher]

I think these are a normal 1♠ overcall and a normal raise to 4♠. On this occasion the cards were lying badly, and the opponents judged and defended well. Should we start underbidding because of that?

[Phil]

Fluffy, on 2015-February-06, 17:16, said:

Our ODR is low

?

[Fluffy]

As opposed to a prototypical 4♠ which could be:

♠KQ10xx
♥xxx
♦x
♣QJxx

our ODR is low.