[JLOGIC]

 Phil, on 2012-September-10, 17:37, said:

btw someone suggested a sensible way to show the min LR is to start with 1N. If partner passes you'll do fine in 1N with a 4-3 or 5-3 with a balanced hand, but if partner pulls to show a good opener (this I disagree with) you can jump to 3♠.

I did not like that idea.

lol, tell that person that they cannot play passing 1N shows a balanced opener as well as pulling 1N shows a good opener. Otherwise partner has no bid over 1N with an unbalanced bad opener.

[phil_20686]

 Phil, on 2012-September-10, 17:37, said:

btw someone suggested a sensible way to show the min LR is to start with 1N. If partner passes you'll do fine in 1N with a 4-3 or 5-3 with a balanced hand, but if partner pulls to show a good opener (this I disagree with) you can jump to 3♠.

I did not like that idea.

lol?

[Phil]

Continuation.

You decide to double 2N. LHO and partner pass and RHO bids 3♣. Partner hits it.

Your lead?

---

[phil_20686]

 Phil, on 2012-September-11, 06:21, said:

Continuation.

You decide to double 2N. LHO and partner pass and RHO bids 3♣. Partner hits it.

Your lead?

---

Spade for me

[Codo]

trump

[gnasher]

On this type of auction you can usually lead a trump without looking at your hand. Having looked, I'd still lead a trump.

[Fluffy]

IMO its clear to pass if you used drury and to double if you bid 2♠.

I find myself regretting too often not leading a trump on this type of auction.

[cherdano]

Why did we double 2NT? Did we suddenly find an extra king or what?

[Phil]

 cherdano, on 2012-September-11, 12:36, said:

Why did we double 2NT? Did we suddenly find an extra king or what?

With an extra king we would have opened the bidding. While its a min LR, it has an unexpected amount of defense.

I don't have strong feelings about double vs pass, but I do have strong feelings about opinions that one of these calls is absolutely clear.

[cherdano]

We have a minimum drury call. If LHO has hearts and clubs, we have an unexpected amount of defense, in the sense that we have less than expected. If LHO has diamonds, we can double ourselves.
Partner knows on his or her own that this auction screams for doubling them. (And if partner doesn't know this, I hope I am getting paid decently.)

[Phil]

 cherdano, on 2012-September-11, 13:05, said:

We have a minimum drury call. If LHO has hearts and clubs, we have an unexpected amount of defense, in the sense that we have less than expected. If LHO has diamonds, we can double ourselves.
Partner knows on his or her own that this auction screams for doubling them. (And if partner doesn't know this, I hope I am getting paid decently.)

Mostly disagree with this. Its very relevant that all of our hand is outside of the spade suit, and partner would like to know this when 3♣ comes around.

Sure, we don't know which suits RHO has, but so what?

Anyway, whats your lead?

[CSGibson]

 cherdano, on 2012-September-11, 13:05, said:

We have a minimum drury call. If LHO has hearts and clubs, we have an unexpected amount of defense, in the sense that we have less than expected. If LHO has diamonds, we can double ourselves.
Partner knows on his or her own that this auction screams for doubling them. (And if partner doesn't know this, I hope I am getting paid decently.)

Agree with this. One of the reasons that drury stands out over a simple raise is that you have now expressed all of your values, and do not need to do things like double 2N - you have approximately the strength that partner expects, partner is now captain with your non-unusual hand (9 highs, 2 quicks, a small bit of distribution...this is dead average).

I think a double of 2N should be approximately 4-3-3-3 and also include something like the club Q - it should say that 1) your hand has 10-11 HCP, and 2) that partner should have a lot of distribution to compete over their bid. It should also invite partner to double aggressively with a 3 card holding in their suit. This hand does not quite meet those standards.

[Trinidad]

We have a minimum Drury bid. Partner shows a minimum third seat opening. What makes you think that 3♣ won't make (with an overtrick)? Doubling with this hand says that you don't trust partner to do the right thing by himself.

Rik

[Phil]

So what are we supposed to do with KQxx xxx Axxx xx and partner cracks 3♣ himself?

[Trinidad]

 Phil, on 2012-September-11, 14:11, said:

So what are we supposed to do with KQxx xxx Axxx xx and partner cracks 3♣ himself?

No matter what we do, at least we won't need to worry what to lead.

Rik

[CSGibson]

 Phil, on 2012-September-11, 14:11, said:

So what are we supposed to do with KQxx xxx Axxx xx and partner cracks 3♣ himself?

Partner does not have the opportunity - I compete to 3♠ immediately with that hand, since I have an extra trump & 3 known/potentially 4 cover coards.

[sathyab]

 Phil, on 2012-September-11, 14:11, said:

So what are we supposed to do with KQxx xxx Axxx xx and partner cracks 3♣ himself?

We have an extra ♠ than our Drury promised and more than half the high cards are in our suit. Pulling to 3♠ seems indicated.

[Fluffy]

 Phil, on 2012-September-11, 14:11, said:

So what are we supposed to do with KQxx xxx Axxx xx and partner cracks 3♣ himself?

It is very hard to bid when we want double to mean that we have extras and also at the same time that our hand sucks and don't want partner to compete.

[sathyab]

 CSGibson, on 2012-September-11, 15:01, said:

Partner does not have the opportunity - I compete to 3♠ immediately with that hand, since I have an extra trump & 3 known/potentially 4 cover coards.

So we're pushing ourselves to 3♠ opposite a partner who said he didn't have a full opener. Isn't the point of Drury not to get to the 3-level on such hands ? Partner may not even have five ♠ in third chair in which case we should consider defending.

[Trinidad]

I think the whole discussion about doubling is moot.

From our point of view: we have 9, partner has 9-12. It's a 20-20 hand.
From partner's point of view: He has 12, we may have 8-11. It may well be a 20-20 hand.

Who doubles their opponents in a 3♣ or ♦ contract at IMPs on 20-20 hands with a fit? Just score your +50 if it is going down and write down -110 or -130 when it makes. Your team mates will be happy.

If you double, you may gain (or save) 2 IMPs if they go down. But if they make, you will lose 8 or 10 IMPs. It means that you need to be more than 80% sure that they go down and more than 84% sure that they won't make an overtrick.

Going against these odds is just begging for 'unfortunate events'.

Rik