[Cthulhu D]

When is it right to sit partner's low level double? Recent hand:

S: 9762
H: KT52
D: 852
C: 97

Vul vs NV, 8 board IMP matches, partner dealt and opened a short 1C

1C - (1S) - P - (1NT)
X - (P) - ??

You might not agree with my first round pass, but that's life. Partner's X is showing 17-19 bal or an unbalanced hand with very good clubs.

My question is - when is it right to sit this and if you do pull how do you find the right spot?

At the table I found the poor bid 2C which goes 3 off, 2D is only 1 off, and they make 1NT.

VVVV Cheers for the pickup, spade spot carelessly omitted added. Curse the hand editor not working.

[Statto]

I seem to have dropped a card on the floor...

[jillybean]

delete.. I didnt read the "Partner's X is showing 16/17+ (17-19 bal or an unbalanced hand with very good clubs)." part.

[Quantumcat]

Partner is showing 18-19 balanced, the same as if the auction had gone 1♣ (1♠) pass (pass) 1NT

If you have the values to make 1NT, you can pass of course. If you don't, you need a suit to pull it to - and here you don't (presuming the missing card isn't a heart).

It's really the same as if your partner's 1NT opening got doubled, and you have a 4333, and pard does not have a five card suit - you will be better off trying to scrape a few tricks in 1NT than be a level higher in a 4-3 fit with two balanced hands.

[aguahombre]

Quantumcat, on 2012-June-03, 22:41, said:

Partner is showing 18-19 balanced, the same as if the auction had gone 1♣ (1♠) pass (pass) 1NT

If you have the values to make 1NT, you can pass of course. If you don't, you need a suit to pull it to - and here you don't (presuming the missing card isn't a heart).

It's really the same as if your partner's 1NT opening got doubled, and you have a 4333, and pard does not have a five card suit - you will be better off trying to scrape a few tricks in 1NT than be a level higher in a 4-3 fit with two balanced hands.

Agree. You gotta sit, hoping either partner has slightly better standards for the double than you describe or minus 180/280 would be better than the alternatives. A mere strong NT hand should not be doubling. He needs a trick source vs. their NT; and you have a possible trick with no suit-play values.

[Cthulhu D]

aguahombre, on 2012-June-03, 23:03, said:

Agree. You gotta sit, hoping either partner has slightly better standards for the double than you describe or minus 180/280 would be better than the alternatives. A mere strong NT hand should not be doubling. He needs a trick source vs. their NT; and you have a possible trick with no suit-play values.

We're playing a 14-16 NT, so I'd only expect a double from an NT hand too strong for 1NT (so 17-19, balanced, good hand) or something like this:

S: xx
H: QJx
D: Kx
C: AKQxxx

But either way, you're right, shoulda sat. I guess 4th hand might pull as well.

[mgoetze]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-June-03, 22:11, said:

Partner's X is showing 17-19 bal or an unbalanced hand with very good clubs.

Quantumcat, on 2012-June-03, 22:41, said:

Partner is showing 18-19 balanced, the same as if the auction had gone 1♣ (1♠) pass (pass) 1NT

Strange stuff, is this played outside of Australia as well? I would have thought the auction was absolutely comparable to 1♣ (1♠) p (p) X, just perhaps promising a bit more values.

[Codo]

I would hate this style- I would like my partner to bid some number of clubs with a strong hand with clubs.
Here I would just sit and fight for the 7. trick.

[lowerline]

Cthulhu D, on 2012-June-03, 22:11, said:

When is it right to sit partner's low level double? Recent hand:

S: 9762
H: KT52
D: 852
C: 97

Vul vs NV, 8 board IMP matches, partner dealt and opened a short 1C

1C - (1S) - P - (1NT)
X - (P) - ??

You might not agree with my first round pass, but that's life. Partner's X is showing 17-19 bal or an unbalanced hand with very good clubs.

My question is - when is it right to sit this and if you do pull how do you find the right spot?

At the table I found the poor bid 2C which goes 3 off, 2D is only 1 off, and they make 1NT.

VVVV Cheers for the pickup, spade spot carelessly omitted added. Curse the hand editor not working.

I would have passed. Partner has 3-5 clubs, 2-3 diamonds, 2-4 hearts and 2-3 spades. So only a heart fit is possible. No way to find out.

Steven

[billw55]

I think it's an easy pass at IMPs. 1NTx is not game, so the downside is not so bad. Whereas the downside of pulling, vulnerable, could be -500.

[Cthulhu D]

Codo, on 2012-June-04, 05:00, said:

I would hate this style- I would like my partner to bid some number of clubs with a strong hand with clubs.
Here I would just sit and fight for the 7. trick.

It was actually completely undiscussed - we're both beginners. I just post here because I get told that my problems are not suitable for the beginner's forum. I had a bit of a guess of what it might be from prior discussions. It probably does make sense to play it as a big balanced hand so I'll discuss that one with partner.

At the table, P had 19 balanced and my rubbish decision was made -180 into -300. With 20/20 hindsight, think BillW's logic is correct.

[nigel_k]

For me, this double would be takeout of spades and I would bid 2♥ with the given hand. With a balanced 18-19 and not suitable for takeout I will pass and hope they go down. But a hand like x AQxx KQx KQJxx really needs to be able to double and not worry about partner passing with xxxx in spades.

[han]

nigel_k, on 2012-June-04, 17:42, said:

For me, this double would be takeout of spades.

Yes, the only sensible agreement imo.

[Codo]

Yes, Nigel gave the right answer to a question which had not been asked.

[Antrax]

As opposed to your post #8, no doubt.

[Codo]

Sorry, should have written it better: Nigel gave the right answer to the question which should have been asked....

[Quantumcat]

Whoever gets to 1NT first not vulnerable wins the board. If you can't punish them when it's your hand, then they'll keep getting good matchpoint scores. So it shouldn't be takeout.

[perko90]

Bad system agreement. That auction is NOT like 1♣-(1♠)-P-P; 1NT where it would be 17-19 Bal. After the auction you posted, DBL should be takeout of ♠'s. The 1NT advance by RHO shows 8-11 HCPs. So, you already know they have their share of HCPs. And just because defending 1NT when Opps are NV is in their favor, doesn't mean making a questionable penalty Dbl makes it any better.