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When to support double

Poll: Lots of choices (28 member(s) have cast votes)

You have several system options, which do you choose

  1. X (shows exactly 3 hearts) (18 votes [64.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 64.29%

  2. 2N (shows 6+ solid diamonds, spade stop, 16+ HCP) (4 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  3. 3D (100% Game forcing, emphasizing diamonds) (5 votes [17.86%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.86%

  4. 3N (to play) (1 votes [3.57%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.57%

  5. 4C (splinter for hearts) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  6. 4D (6 diamonds and 4 hearts, emphasis on values in those suits (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  7. 2D (forcing, intending to show a game forcing heart raise) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  8. Another choice (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

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#1 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 09:37



Systemically, 1 is opened on any balanced 18-19 without a 5 card major and could be short, or any unbalanced opening hand with . A 1N rebid would clarify the hand as the 18-19 hand. Partner will stretch to respond opposite a 1 opener.

Your choices for a rebid are:
A support X
2 (this is either a weak heart raise, a game forcing heart raise, or around 15-18 HCP with 6+ diamonds. It is forcing, with partner supposed to treat it as the weak heart raise until later bidding clarifies the auction)
2N (which systemically shows 16+ HCP and 6+ solid diamonds in an uncontested auction)
3 (100% Game forcing, emphasizing )
3N (undefined systemically, logically to play)
4 (splinter)
4 (swiss raise of hearts)

You could also cue bid 2, but typically we have been using that bid to show an 18-19 NT without a spade stopper, so I've left it out of the poll.

If you make a support X, partner's follow-ups would include XYZ.
Chris Gibson
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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 09:42

Just out of curiosity, this is a rather funny system, what do I do on minimum hands?

3 looks good, as long as my partner knows the system.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#3 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 09:59

I voted for 2NT, but in your explanation it says "uncontested", while only the meaning in a contested auction seems relevant.

All these system options seem irrelevant, I guess that the answer you are looking for is, I show the diamonds.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

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#4 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 10:09

Yikes, I missed the option of 2NT. Next time I promise I will read the whole post and nothing but the post.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#5 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 10:35

The bottom line is whether it is obligatory to make the support double when you hold 3 hearts. This is an issue which has been discussed on other threads.

I think you should double and show your power and shape later. The double will not end the auction (at least, it should not end the auction).

For those of us who believe the support double is mandatory, it follows that any other bid denies 3 hearts.

For those who believe the support double is not mandatory, there is a possibility that you hold 3 hearts if you have gone out of your way to show long diamonds. I cannot think of any other situation in which you would hold 3 hearts and not make a support double.
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#6 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 10:38

I hate support dbls, but if I were forced to play that ugly convention at gun point, I'd prefer to only supp dbl on minimum hands. Reason is with a better hand you usually have alternatives like (shock, horror) making a natural bid.
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#7 User is offline   jmcw 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 12:57

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-June-24, 10:38, said:

I hate support dbls, but if I were forced to play that ugly convention at gun point, I'd prefer to only supp dbl on minimum hands. Reason is with a better hand you usually have alternatives like (shock, horror) making a natural bid.


I would DBL to start and go from there, but I'm uncertain if this is best!.

I can see rebidding 3, but will we ever get to play if partner thinks I have < 3

Is there some better use for the DBL in this situation ?
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#8 User is offline   CSGibson 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 13:14

View Postgwnn, on 2011-June-24, 09:42, said:

Just out of curiosity, this is a rather funny system, what do I do on minimum hands?

3 looks good, as long as my partner knows the system.


I wasn't trying to focus on the system, so much as explain the options I had available to me within context of the system I was playing at the time, but since you asked...

Balanced minimums open 1C or 1N (depending on vulnerability), and unbalanced minimums open naturally. Minimum opening hands with 6+ diamonds tend to open an intermediate 2 bid (9-14 HCP). A pass here would probably indicate an unbalanced hand with 4, since the only balanced hand type would be the one with 18-19, which would be forced to act.
Chris Gibson
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#9 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 13:26

View Postjmcw, on 2011-June-24, 12:57, said:

Is there some better use for the DBL in this situation ?


Yes. Take out.
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#10 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 13:29

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-June-24, 13:26, said:

Yes. Take out.


I love take-out double showing one suit. I think they are awesome and a great use of bidding space.
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#11 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 13:30

hey what happened to your signature?
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#12 User is offline   matmat 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 13:35

View Postwhereagles, on 2011-June-24, 13:30, said:

hey what happened to your signature?


The mice got at it.
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#13 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-June-24, 15:56

Normally doubling to show three hearts is best. On this board there is likely nine tricks in notrumps as long as opponents play spade, spade on the first two tricks. Sorry, if they find four club tricks after taking the spade ace.
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#14 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-June-25, 13:24

I'd DBL and show 3 cards first. And i like support DBLS. What i hate is support RDBLS which i believe is totally different situation than supp DBL.
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#15 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 10:57

Announcing 3-card trump support isn't an end in itself. Its purpose to to assist partner in judging during the auction. Do you want partner to pull to 4 whenever he holds five hearts?

1 - p - 1 - 1
X - p - 2 - p
3NT - p - 4?

xx QJxxx x KJxxx

3NT is probably the better contract.
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#16 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 12:09

Question: How can 3N be "to play" (poll option) opposite a responder who has shown 6 to 20 points?

[EDIT] Forget that - I see that it is undefined

This post has been edited by 1eyedjack: 2011-June-26, 12:15

Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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#17 User is offline   jogs 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 21:10

Points-schmoints, the object of the game is to make tricks. 3NT is to play. It is not shutout.
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#18 User is offline   Onedown 

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Posted 2011-June-26, 22:21

View PostArtK78, on 2011-June-24, 10:35, said:

The bottom line is whether it is obligatory to make the support double when you hold 3 hearts. This is an issue which has been discussed on other threads.

I think you should double and show your power and shape later. The double will not end the auction (at least, it should not end the auction).

For those of us who believe the support double is mandatory, it follows that any other bid denies 3 hearts.

For those who believe the support double is not mandatory, there is a possibility that you hold 3 hearts if you have gone out of your way to show long diamonds. I cannot think of any other situation in which you would hold 3 hearts and not make a support double.

I agree with anyone who says use the support x at this juncture. The auction won't stop here and it allows you to show your hand later but at least gives partner an obligatory message.
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#19 User is offline   rhm 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 06:38

View Postjogs, on 2011-June-26, 10:57, said:

Announcing 3-card trump support isn't an end in itself. Its purpose to to assist partner in judging during the auction. Do you want partner to pull to 4 whenever he holds five hearts?

1 - p - 1 - 1
X - p - 2 - p
3NT - p - 4?

xx QJxxx x KJxxx

3NT is probably the better contract.

And if partner has a very similar hand xx KQJxx xx Jxxx 6 is excellent while 3NT is down.

Having support for partner's major , which I can show cheaply, and a side suit void is not what I should have when I bid an immediate notrump, no matter how solid my minor happens to be.
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#20 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2011-June-27, 06:44

I'll Dbl to show my support. Lovely hand, we need something like KQJx or KQxxx in partner's hand and we already have a fair chance in 6.
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