[hanp]

Jlall, on Jun 4 2010, 02:31 PM, said:

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 11:28 AM, said:

With both minors partner could have bid 5S or 5NT.

5S? Isn't that a grand slam try in hearts?

Not after they have made a penalty double.

[Jlall]

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 02:44 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 4 2010, 02:31 PM, said:

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 11:28 AM, said:

With both minors partner could have bid 5S or 5NT.

5S? Isn't that a grand slam try in hearts?

Not after they have made a penalty double.

lol touche. I thought they doubled 6C and not 5H. Why is XX a poll option heh

[jjbrr]

Jlall, on Jun 4 2010, 01:49 PM, said:

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 02:44 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 4 2010, 02:31 PM, said:

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 11:28 AM, said:

With both minors partner could have bid 5S or 5NT.

5S? Isn't that a grand slam try in hearts?

Not after they have made a penalty double.

lol touche. I thought they doubled 6C and not 5H. Why is XX a poll option heh

because if you pass 6♣, they will double back to you. ie OP got ahead of himself.

[the hog]

Codo, on Jun 4 2010, 06:07 PM, said:

If partner had a club one suiter he had been able to bid 3 or 6 NT or 4, 5 or 6 clubs instead of 3 ♠.
If the choice of 3 NT/5 club is whether or not we have a stopper, why did he ask for our heart length? Would you ask for the way to the airport if you are looking for a gas station?

So he cannot have a one-suiter. I play him for the minors and bid 6 ♦.

I agree with Roland. I convert to 6D

[jdonn]

I think in the given conditions of money bridge where everyone is playing the same very basic system it's 100% obvious partner just has clubs. No one of any level in games like that monkeys around with auctions like this intending a suit bid to show something other than what was bid. And all for a subtle distinction about suit length between 5NT and 6♣?

If you bid 6♦ I would say it's clear you have never played high stakes Chicago bridge before.

[the hog]

Josh, I take it you read:
"If North had bid four of a minor, that would have been natural and forcing"
This means there is no real point to 6C unless pd is 2 suited. As this is an expert table, I think you need to take that inference into account. That is of course, unless you think your partner is an idiot who just likes to bid for the sake of it.
Yes, I have played high stakes rb, though not hs Chicago.

[gwnn]

So how would you have taken 5S and 5NT Hog? I am just wondering. Please don't insult me

[dburn]

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 02:44 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 4 2010, 02:31 PM, said:

hanp, on Jun 4 2010, 11:28 AM, said:

With both minors partner could have bid 5S or 5NT.

5S? Isn't that a grand slam try in hearts?

Not after they have made a penalty double.

And after they have made a striped-tailed-ape double?

[gnasher]

dburn, on Jun 5 2010, 10:02 PM, said:

And after they have made a striped-tailed-ape double?

Wouldn't you just redouble? It's true that if 7♥ is making, 5♥xx will score only £420 instead of £453, but it seems unlikely that responder will be sufficiently sure of his ground to want to drive 7♥ for that reason.

[MickyB]

gnasher, on Jun 5 2010, 09:15 PM, said:

dburn, on Jun 5 2010, 10:02 PM, said:

And after they have made a striped-tailed-ape double?

Wouldn't you just redouble? It's true that if 7♥ is making, 5♥xx will score only £420 instead of £453, but it seems unlikely that responder will be sufficiently sure of his ground to want to drive 7♥ for that reason.

And if he was, he'd probably just bid it?

[wank]

seems churlish to blue this - we have prime cards, but we did force partner to the 6 level when he was perhaps only planning to play 3nt or 5c and he can probably infer a relative lack of spade cards from the 5H bid.

partner surely doesn't have a spade void or he'd just start with 4C so it seems unlikely this is a laydown anyway.

'correcting' the strain is just living in a parallel universe - the methods might not be to your desired level of sophistication, but partner would have found something to bid over 5Hx with the minors.

[the hog]

gwnn, on Jun 5 2010, 06:31 PM, said:

So how would you have taken 5S and 5NT Hog? I am just wondering. Please don't insult me

Good question. To be honest, I am not sure. However, I still contend that if responder is not 2 suited he bid the hand like an idiot, which he clearly is not based on David's scenario.
Anyway, I would like to see the hand.

"'correcting' the strain is just living in a parallel universe " This sort of comment is a wank. Why would partner not show a single suited hand with Cs, by bidding the damn suit!

[jdonn]

The_Hog, on Jun 5 2010, 04:03 AM, said:

Josh, I take it you read:
"If North had bid four of a minor, that would have been natural and forcing"
This means there is no real point to 6C unless pd is 2 suited. As this is an expert table, I think you need to take that inference into account. That is of course, unless you think your partner is an idiot who just likes to bid for the sake of it.
Yes, I have played high stakes rb, though not hs Chicago.

He was obviously hoping you would bid 3NT, there is nothing more to it.

And what you really mean is there is no real point to 3♠ unless partner is two suited. Obviously at the time when he bid 6♣ there was quite a lot of point to it if he had just clubs.

And an expert, playing for money, does not bid a suit showing two suits when another bid would very clearly show two suits. If he bids a suit that is the suit he has.

[dburn]

jdonn, on Jun 5 2010, 10:26 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 5 2010, 04:03 AM, said:

Josh, I take it you read:
"If North had bid four of a minor, that would have been natural and forcing"
This means there is no real point to 6C unless pd is 2 suited. As this is an expert table, I think you need to take that inference into account. That is of course, unless you think your partner is an idiot who just likes to bid for the sake of it.
Yes, I have played high stakes rb, though not hs Chicago.

He was obviously hoping you would bid 3NT, there is nothing more to it.

And how could he be hoping that? I mean, if the next hand had passed, you would have bid 4♥ with four whether or not you had a spade stop, and you would have bid 3NT if you did not have four hearts whether or not you had a spade stop. It is one thing to hope that partner can bid 3NT, but it is quite another thing when even if he bids it, you will have no idea whether or not it is the right contract.

Still, thanks to all who have contributed. I will come clean about the full hand shortly, but there may be more to be said by others first.

[the hog]

David beat me to it. It is a bit hard to go back to 3NT after a 4H bid.

[jdonn]

It's possible to reach 3NT if you double 3♠. It's impossible to reach 3NT if you bid 4 of a minor.

[MFA]

If 6♣ is not just clubs then it's beyond me, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if I misunderstood most of the tricky calls in that actual game. I would have assumed that those stone axe methods would imply that bidding clubs meant clubs, but that is probably just silly me.

[Fluffy]

I don't like your approach in the 3♠ cuebid David, why bid 3NT without a stopper instead of 4m?, the latter seems like a better approach to me or at least more "natural"

[cherdanno]

dburn, on Jun 5 2010, 11:45 PM, said:

jdonn, on Jun 5 2010, 10:26 PM, said:

The_Hog, on Jun 5 2010, 04:03 AM, said:

Josh, I take it you read:
"If North had bid four of a minor, that would have been natural and forcing"
This means there is no real point to 6C unless pd is 2 suited. As this is an expert table, I think you need to take that inference into account. That is of course, unless you think your partner is an idiot who just likes to bid for the sake of it.
Yes, I have played high stakes rb, though not hs Chicago.

He was obviously hoping you would bid 3NT, there is nothing more to it.

And how could he be hoping that? I mean, if the next hand had passed, you would have bid 4♥ with four whether or not you had a spade stop, and you would have bid 3NT if you did not have four hearts whether or not you had a spade stop. It is one thing to hope that partner can bid 3NT, but it is quite another thing when even if he bids it, you will have no idea whether or not it is the right contract.

But maybe partner is world class and realizes that it is better to sometimes play 3NT with a stopper despite having a heart fit, than not being able to check for a stopper when having a long minor suit? And since he knows I am world class too, he will also realize that I realize that and so I will take 3S primarily as a stopper ask, and only bid 4H when I have four hearts and no stopper?

[the hog]

Arend, if he is looking to play 3NT, he has now upped the ante significanlty with 6C. So if your premise is correct, then it appears that the 5H bid was a big mistake. Or else he didn't anticipate the possibility of a 4H or 5H bid However he looks short of S as I have 3. Is he short of H as well? If he is short of Hs then he should have anticipated a H response from me, as clearly I can have a 5 card H suit, (cf this hand).