[awm]

FrancesHinden, on Jan 28 2008, 05:53 AM, said:

If partner opens 1C on all weak NTs (including 4243) a game try is more tempting as we're more likely to have a diamond fit.

It is funny that this seems to suggest opening 1♣ with all weak notrumps will help you get to the good light hcp game.

After all, if partner opens longer/better minor then you know whether you have a secondary minor suit fit. This should really help you evaluate more accurately don't you think?

[TimG]

Jlall, on Jan 26 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

Clearly natural bidders will start:

p 1C

Won't some natural bidders start: P-1♠ or P-1NT?

[mikeh]

I'm not at all convinced that North can read anything into the raise by South.

I used to play that such a raise showed a non-minimum, in that all minimums would pass 1♠. But then I noticed that the opps never passed out 1♠...

Sometimes they'd find a magic fit and be able to make 3-red suit, and other times, they'd be -50 in 3 red when we were cold for 110... and don't tell me that we can push the board by doubling a close partscore into game

So now, I raise as third hand with any hand with which I would have opened in 1st or 2nd, and this means that responder needs a touch more, than he has here, in order to make a game try.

Opposite AJxx Ax xxx A10xx, the same high card strength, and the same shape, and we have no 3 level safety. And, using the approach I have indicated, he needn't be that strong.

Note that whenever South is 4=2=3=4 or 4=3=2=4 with a minimum, the opps can almost always make 2 or even 3♥, so passing 1♠ with a hand such as this, but weaker, is losing bridge.

So, this is another missed game for me, unless I was in Heat One, where everything we bid makes.

[TimG]

Jlall, on Jan 28 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

TimG, on Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 26 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

Clearly natural bidders will start:

p 1C

Won't some natural bidders start: P-1♠ or P-1NT?

What is the point of this post?

The point is that many in North America misuse "natural" to mean "standard" or "normal for this region" when the methods they describing are not necessarily natural. Nor are they necessarily superior to more natural methods. I think this misuse of "natural" also highlights the one-way-to-do-things, homogenized thinking of many in ACBL-land. I don't think this one way of looking at things is a good thing for bridge.

Anyway, sorry to have raised your ire. I meant to be constructive in the don't-get-caught-inside-the-box sort of way.

[cherdano]

TimG, on Jan 29 2008, 10:22 AM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 28 2008, 05:51 PM, said:

TimG, on Jan 28 2008, 03:03 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jan 26 2008, 05:30 PM, said:

Clearly natural bidders will start:

p 1C

Won't some natural bidders start: P-1♠ or P-1NT?

What is the point of this post?

The point is that many in North America misuse "natural" to mean "standard" or "normal for this region" when the methods they describing are not necessarily natural. Nor are they necessarily superior to more natural methods. I think this misuse of "natural" also highlights the one-way-to-do-things, homogenized thinking of many in ACBL-land. I don't think this one way of looking at things is a good thing for bridge.

I think it is excellent for bridge in the US that two expert players can sit down without discussion and have a huge set of common ground of agreements and style issues that they can assume (much more than two German experts after 4-5 hours of discussion - not to single out Germany here, just giving the example of which I am quite confident that I am right).