[whereagles]

Scoring: MP

Match points, mixed field.

You pard
2NT 3♦ (transfer)
3♥ . 6♣ (natural, choice of slams)
??

---

Simple option here: either you bid 6 or 7♥. Don't even think of bidding 6♦, intending it as some sort of "heart grand slam invite" because pard won't understand

So, 6 or 7?

Edit: well, I forgot one thing. Seeing this is matchpoints, you can also try 6NT.

[mr1303]

Presumably partner could've bid something other than 6♣ if he was interested in hearing 7 from me? Just so that I've got this right, partner is only asking me to choose between 6♣ and 6♥.

In which case I bid 6♥. I think anything else is a breach of partnership discipline.

[Wackojack]

The options to my mind are 6♥ or 6nt. 6♥ might give you average minus. If you can make 7♥, you almost certainly can make 6nt and there are many hands where 6nt makes and 7♥ does not. If partner bids 6♣ you surely don't have more than 1 club loser. So I will go for 6nt for very little risk and even if 7♥ is cold, 6nt will score well

[Echognome]

Count me for 6♥. Partner asked me to choose between 6♣ and 6♥, so I choose.

[cherdano]

No way I will bid 7.
If partner is sane, then 7 has no play.* I have a wasted K and only 6 points in partner's suits. I bid 6♥ as requested. (Btw, 8 controls is just above average for a 20 point hand, IIRC.) IMHO would be an insult to play partner for AQ-5th in both suits, or AQ-6th of ♥ and A-5th of clubs.
To say it differently, except for possibly (likely) wasted K's, all I have are keycards. If they are enough to make 7, partner could have asked for them.

Arend

Edit:
(*) I meant to say "can't be better than a finesse", having no play is an overbid.

[mikeh]

6♥: anything else is an insult to partner...anouncing that you know partner's hand better than he does.

If 7♥ is a good, sound contract, then he has bid his hand badly.

Neither your game nor his will improve if you cater to poor bidding on his part.

When you are correct, he will not improve, and when you are wrong, the damage done to the partnershp is immense.

If you should be in 7, bid 6 and explain (after the game) where he went wrong and why.

[whereagles]

Well, to me it's kinda surprising that everybody submits to "partnership discipline" and no-one mentions that you have one of the very best hands you could possibly have in this auction. (The *only* better hand is same one with the heart queen.)

I mean.. sure pard knows what he's doing, but he couldn't possibly guess our hand fits so well. A hand with 20 hcp is very independent. I don't consider it lack of respect to take a flier with such an hand if the situation is truly exceptional.

[Free]

What can partner have to force to slam and have at least 5-5?? He needs both Aces for sure, and probably another queen in his suits. Which one is the question...

It's MP, so I'll gamble and bid the grand.

[Blofeld]

6♥.

I can see the appeal of 6NT, but not of 7♥.

[cherdano]

whereagles, on May 26 2006, 04:38 PM, said:

Well, to me it's kinda surprising that everybody submits to "partnership discipline" and no-one mentions that you have one of the very best hands you could possibly have in this auction. (The *only* better hand is same one with the heart queen.)

I mean.. sure pard knows what he's doing, but he couldn't possibly guess our hand fits so well. A hand with 20 hcp is very independent. I don't consider it lack of respect to take a flier with such an hand if the situation is truly exceptional.

Here is a hand partner could have where his bidding isn't silly: ♠Qx ♥QJxxx ♦ x ♣AQJxx. Extremely unlikely from his point of view that a grand is on, but with 32-33 hcp partner "knows" you want to play slam, so he picked the fast route to let you choose the right one.

Anyway, in case you didnt notice, you have 1-2 wasted kings, no 3rd round control in your fit suit, and only two aces. I would certainly be willing to bid 6♦ here (with an understanding partner) to show a 2N opening that is exceptionally good opposite a ♥-♣ twosuiter (♠Axx ♥AQTx ♦AKxx ♣ Kx). This one simply is not. It's good, but not exceptionally good.

Arend

[mikeh]

whereagles, on May 26 2006, 09:38 AM, said:

Well, to me it's kinda surprising that everybody submits to "partnership discipline" and no-one mentions that you have one of the very best hands you could possibly have in this auction. (The *only* better hand is same one with the heart queen.)

I mean.. sure pard knows what he's doing, but he couldn't possibly guess our hand fits so well. A hand with 20 hcp is very independent. I don't consider it lack of respect to take a flier with such an hand if the situation is truly exceptional.

The point is that your hand is good, but he could have asked you to evaluate for grand and he chose not to. He may have a difficult hand: say x AQJxxx void QJxxxx.

He could have taken a slow route: a route that involved you.. he chose not to do so.

Whereagles: your posts consistently reflect a strong desire on your part to control the auctions: to be the partner making all of the important decisions. This is no different. Your partner asked you to choose between small slams, and you want to bid grand. Grand may make: no-one can argue that. But if grand is a good contract (as opposed to one that makes on the lie of the cards), partner HAS MADE A MISTAKE.

This is a good hand, better than average for 2N, even. But it is not an unusual hand in context: you hold only 2 Kings in partner's suits.

Say you held Axxx K10xx AKx AK: now that is a hand on which I can see bidding 7♥

[jdonn]

I once held A Qxxx AKQJx Axx, it went (3♣) 3NT (P) 6♥ (P). I bid 7♥, doubled and down when partner held KQJ KJT9xxxx - KQ.

Not too long after I opened 1NT with AKx xx AJTxxx Ax. It went 2♦ 2♥ 3♦ 4♦ 6♦. I bid 7♦ and went down opposite Q KQJT9 KQxx KQJ.

I'm not saying partner bid correctly, or even well, in either case. I simply don't take stabs at grands any more when I wasn't invited to do so. 6♥.

[pclayton]

Curious hand.

While I like this holding (don't love), the hands that pard rates to have either make 6N OR 7H excellent (or at least playable), but I can't which. Typical hands could be: xx, AQJxx, x, Axxxx or xx, QJxxx, x, AQJxx.

If this was a pickup partnership, I would concerned that pard would fear 4C would be interpreted as KCB, so 6C becomes a 'practical' bid. Pard may have a hand that is stretching for 6, or a hand just shy of 7.

[whereagles]

mikeh, on May 26 2006, 03:21 PM, said:

1.
Whereagles: your posts consistently reflect a strong desire on your part to control the auctions: to be the partner making all of the important decisions. This is no different.

2.
But if grand is a good contract (as opposed to one that makes on the lie of the cards), partner HAS MADE A MISTAKE.

3.
Say you held Axxx K10xx AKx AK: now that is a hand on which I can see bidding 7♥

4.
He may have a difficult hand: say x AQJxxx void QJxxxx.

1. That's not it. It's just that I have this theory that a strong hand, because it's very independent, is allowed to take charge on special occasions, EVEN IF IT'S LIMITED.

2. I understand that, but I prefer to win at table than to win the post-mortem. I don't mind taking the blame if it goes wrong. I just feel it's right to bid 7 and I usually follow my feelings. It's nothing personal to pard.

3. See? You agree with my point #1 after all!

4. Well, I agree he might have a difficult hand to bid, but I can hardly believe we would bid a slam if there could be 2 aces out. That's why I'm crediting pard with the missing aces.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on May 26 2006, 03:28 PM, said:

I once held A Qxxx AKQJx Axx, it went (3♣) 3NT (P) 6♥ (P). I bid 7♥, doubled and down when partner held KQJ KJT9xxxx - KQ.

Not too long after I opened 1NT with AKx xx AJTxxx Ax. It went 2♦ 2♥ 3♦ 4♦ 6♦. I bid 7♦ and went down opposite Q KQJT9 KQxx KQJ.

I'm not saying partner bid correctly, or even well, in either case. I simply don't take stabs at grands any more when I wasn't invited to do so. 6♥.

There's, of course, a lot going for this. Especially if your pard has this tendency not to ask for aces

[jdonn]

whereagles, on May 26 2006, 10:53 AM, said:

jdonn, on May 26 2006, 03:28 PM, said:

I once held A Qxxx AKQJx Axx, it went (3♣) 3NT (P) 6♥ (P). I bid 7♥, doubled and down when partner held KQJ KJT9xxxx - KQ.

Not too long after I opened 1NT with AKx xx AJTxxx Ax. It went 2♦ 2♥ 3♦ 4♦ 6♦. I bid 7♦ and went down opposite Q KQJT9 KQxx KQJ.

I'm not saying partner bid correctly, or even well, in either case. I simply don't take stabs at grands any more when I wasn't invited to do so. 6♥.

There's, of course, a lot going for this. Especially if your pard has this tendency not to ask for aces

Your pard didn't ask for aces either.

He won't be happy with you when he gets doubled holding - AQxxxx - QJxxxxx.

Also note, the hand you hold is not even as good as it might be. You have no length in either of partner's suits, and definite wastage outside those suits.

This is just a classic case of the good hand getting excited and overbidding, but even worse since he was not invited to do so.

Also never forget, the other table might be in game. Even when it seems unthinkable, it happens a lot. My second example from the last post, as impossible as it seems, the other table was in game. I am not kidding.

[whereagles]

jdonn, on May 26 2006, 03:59 PM, said:

1.
He won't be happy with you when he gets doubled holding - AQxxxx - QJxxxxx.

2.
Also never forget, the other table might be in game. Even when it seems unthinkable, it happens a lot. My second example from the last post, as impossible as it seems, the other table was in game. I am not kidding.

3.
This is just a classic case of the good hand getting excited and overbidding, but even worse since he was not invited to do so.

1. Hum... yeah I guess it's easy to come up with examples where you're an ace off. But how likely is it that pard holds a 66 or 76 with an ace out?

2. There was no other table, rather, 40 other tables. It was matchpoints

3. Well, the point is a 2NT opener is independent enough to produce a trick or two above the expectation if the hand fits. For instance, pard might have bid like he did on grounds that he had no way to find out about a grand. If he didn't stretch to bid 6, then my hand can easily produce a trick above expectation.

Well, maybe it was reckless to bid 7, bit I did so, on grounds that if pard didn't have the heart queen, I might still finesse for it. He actually held a good hand:

Scoring: MP

Me pard
2NT 3♦
3♥ . 6♣
7♥

---

Ok, maybe pard should have bid his hand differently. Grand is cold, bar bad breaks. Needless to say, the bad breaks were there...

LHO led the ♠J, taken in hand while dummy discarded a club.

♥K and ♥up sees LHO discarding a spade. Still cold on 3-2 clubs, but upon a club back to the king, RHO plays the ♣10...

Now 3 rounds of trumps followed. LHO discarding another spade, a diamond and the ♦10 (an error).

Obviously, LHO doesn't have the diamond queen, so I run the jack of diamonds, covered by RHO (another error, as it cleared up the position) and taken in hand as LHO discards.

A club up confirms the 4-1 break, but the finesse over RHOs 9x of diamonds is open and 7 rolls in.

Ok, that was a bit of a soft defense, but I did give it all I had.

In retrospect, I think 6NT would be the best bid over 6♣, not 7♥. 6NT= would be good for 84%. 7♥ was 92% (someone somehow made 7NT).

[mike777]

I notice you guys really like to bid your shorter majors before longer minors with 2 excellent suits.

[whereagles]

mike777, on May 26 2006, 04:56 PM, said:

I notice you guys really like to bid your shorter majors before longer minors with 2 excellent suits.

Might be technically wrong, but does make life easier

[jdonn]

haha righhhhht, life was so easy on this hand, you just knew it was cold when you bid it