[luis]

This happened to me yesterday at the local club:
You are playing a team match and you receive the following interesting hand

Scoring: IMP

---

You are thinking you are going to bid a lot when pd decides to open 1♠ (14+ and forcing in your methods but would have been a natural 1♠ opening too)
Your options are:

2♣/2♦/2♥ = 10+ GF (2♣ may be clubs, or balanced or spade support)
3♣ would show 10+ 5-5 in clubs and another (3♦ asks, 3NT then shows diamonds)
1NT = 0-9 any hand

Note that playing 2/1 you have more or less the same choices. What do you choose and why?

After discussion I promise would start a new thread with the subsequent development of the auction.

Luis

[han]

This already looks bad, and I'm sure it's going to get worse.

If I start with 2D or 3C then I'm often going overboard, while if I start with 1NT then I'm going to have a worse problem next round (when partner rebids 2H or 2S). I vote for 3C and hope that we can play in 5 of a minor.

[inquiry]

You would think playing this 3♣ as 5-5 or better and 10+ woud be the perfect solution to this hand (the DISTRIBUTION more than makes up for the lack of the required 10 hcp). The disadvantage is, as I see it, partner might double cross us and pass 3NT. GACK... (I am not familar with the method, if pass of 3NT is not allowed, ok, I bid 3♣ happily).

So here is my plan. I will bid 3♣ after all, and then when partner bids 3♦ asking, I will bid 4♣ hopefully saying,

1) I didn't ahve enough for 2/1 GF
2) I couldn't afford to risk you passing 3NT
3) My hand looks something like what I actually hold here.

[Al_U_Card]

From your notes there appears to be no need to be clever (and confuse pard as well) so just bid the system bid, 1NT. I am sure you also have continuations after any number of H (ie 1S-1NT-4H- p???)

[Al_U_Card]

inquiry, on Feb 1 2006, 01:17 PM, said:

So here is my plan. I will bid 3♣ after all, and then when partner bids 3♦ asking, I will bid 4♣ hopefully saying,

1) I didn't ahve enough for 2/1 GF
2) I couldn't afford to risk you passing 3NT
3) My hand looks something like what I actually hold here.

You realize that now Luis may have to re-write his system....

[luis]

Note: you are all invited to bid playing 2/1 too, you can submit your 2/1 bid and your "fantunes-style" bid which is what I was playing with my pd. The problem is very similar.

[Walddk]

1NT, what else? He will probably bid a number of hearts next, wereafter I wish I hadn't sat down to play, but so what? Those things happen. I am not going to bid 3♣ with that hand. Maybe partner will take me seriously: 10+ hcp.



Roland

[luis]

Walddk, on Feb 1 2006, 06:38 PM, said:

1NT, what else? He will probably bid a number of hearts next, wereafter I wish I hadn't sat down to play, but so what? Those things happen. I am not going to bid 3♣ with that hand. Maybe partner will take me seriously: 10+ hcp.



Roland

A second problem of 3♣ that I would like to note is that we are quite strict about 5-5 shape. With 6-5 for instance and 10+ we bid the 6 card suit in a normal 2/1 way.

[awm]

I actually like a 2♦ bid. I'm glad to be playing 2/1s that show 10+ points, since in the context of a more "standard" 2/1 GF system this hand really isn't good enough. But given that partner holds 14+ there are many fairly minimum hands that make a game.

Over 1NT this problem is just going to rear it's head again at the next bid of the auction. Partner will usually rebid hearts or spades, and now it seems likely that we have a fit in one of the minors (partner can have 5-4-3-1 or 5-4-1-3 or 6-3-3-1 for example) but we'll be forced to guess which it is. The 2♦ bid always finds any minor fit we have, and 3NT might even make opposite some hands including (for example) ♣Ax.

[Al_U_Card]

Bailing on misfits is usually a good practice. Here if you try to introduce your minor suits you will be at the 4 level before you know it. Pass any non-forcing bid and get yer run-outs ready......(except, of course, a minor suit...... )

[luis]

awm, on Feb 1 2006, 07:16 PM, said:

I actually like a 2♦ bid. I'm glad to be playing 2/1s that show 10+ points, since in the context of a more "standard" 2/1 GF system this hand really isn't good enough. But given that partner holds 14+ there are many fairly minimum hands that make a game.

Over 1NT this problem is just going to rear it's head again at the next bid of the auction. Partner will usually rebid hearts or spades, and now it seems likely that we have a fit in one of the minors (partner can have 5-4-3-1 or 5-4-1-3 or 6-3-3-1 for example) but we'll be forced to guess which it is. The 2♦ bid always finds any minor fit we have, and 3NT might even make opposite some hands including (for example) ♣Ax.

I confess that playing 3NT with a 6-6 hand never crossed my mind and I'm known for playing 3NT with a lot of strange shapes :-)

[Free]

1NT, I suspect someone to bid ♥. What does the bidding 1♠-1NT;2♥-2NT mean? Is it invite or total misfit with both minors?

[Al_U_Card]

Free, on Feb 1 2006, 02:33 PM, said:

1NT, I suspect someone to bid ♥. What does the bidding 1♠-1NT;2♥-2NT mean? Is it invite or total misfit with both minors?

1-345(54) and a great 10 to a horrible 12 hcp invitational.

[mike777]

1NT

No problem so far.

My next bid will probably be a weakish 3 clubs. I choose to live with the invite, long minor and unbalanced hand "system hole" in my style of 2/1. Thank goodness hyper active opponents tend to save the day and allow me to bid the hand in a more natural fashion often. .

[whereagles]

2♦. After some nr. of spades or hearts by pard, I follow up with 5♣.

If, for some obscure resaon, this 5♣ bid would be some sort of inverted-rolling-gerber, I would bid 1NT instead

[luis]

whereagles, on Feb 1 2006, 09:30 PM, said:

2♦. After some nr. of spades or hearts by pard, I follow up with 5♣.

If, for some obscure resaon, this 5♣ bid would be some sort of inverted-rolling-gerber, I would bid 1NT instead

For maybe obscure or not reasons a direct jump to 5♣ without showing a club suit will be understood as exclusion blackwood in the suit pd mentioned.

[han]

I didn't know that 3C followed by 3NT shows exactly 5-5, I thought it would be at least 5-5. In that case I will bid 2D.

I also didn't know that 10+ was referring to HCP, as Roland suggests. Does 1S really show 14+ HCP?

[luis]

Hannie, on Feb 1 2006, 10:19 PM, said:

I didn't know that 3C followed by 3NT shows exactly 5-5, I thought it would be at least 5-5. In that case I will bid 2D.

I also didn't know that 10+ was referring to HCP, as Roland suggests. Does 1S really show 14+ HCP?

Yes 1♠ is 14+ we play Fantunes style with 1x openings showing 14+ and 2x openings showing 9-13.

[han]

When I play Fantunes with Gerben the 14+ don't refer to HCP but to hand strength. For instance, with AKxxxx AQ10x x xx we would certainly open 1S, not 2S. (Gerben, correct me if I'm wrong)