[jillybean]

North & South both folded up their Score sheets after this hand

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[shyams]

3♠

It's very likely that partner has a monster hand.

[WasWinM]

Partner has doubled with heart length yet hasn’t bid NT and didn’t jump. I think it’s close but
I think I’m worth a boost: 3S

[mikeh]

In theory, north has a good 6 card spade suit and around 17+ hcp. He won’t have a truly huge hand…that would do something other than make a non-forcing 2S bid. I say ‘in theory’ because, as someone who plays club bridge roughly once a week, I know that many club players have very strange ideas about auctions that start (whether or not they should start) with double.

As for Winston’s reference to North not bidding notrump, I think that’s irrelevant. He’d not bid notrump merely because he has heart values if he also has the good 6 card spade suit this auction shows.

I’m torn between 3S and 4S….if my heart Queen were elsewhere, I’d even consider 3H! I choose 3S because I’m inferring matchpoints. I’d probably do the same at imps because we’re not vulnerable. Reverse the vulnerability and I’d bid 4S at imps.

[shyams]

I am curious as to what North should bid holding 5♠-3♥-(3-2) and 19 HCP with weakness in Opener's suit (♥xxx or ♥jxx)?

Or even 21 HCP and same shape + weakness?

[mike777]

shyams, on 2025-July-26, 10:58, said:

I am curious as to what North should bid holding 5♠-3♥-(3-2) and 19 HCP with weakness in Opener's suit (♥xxx or ♥jxx)?

Or even 21 HCP and same shape + weakness?

On this auction, we get to assume partner has around 7 HCP, as such game is in the picture. I believe your options are double, again, or 3H cuebid.

[mikeh]

shyams, on 2025-July-26, 10:58, said:

I am curious as to what North should bid holding 5♠-3♥-(3-2) and 19 HCP with weakness in Opener's suit (♥xxx or ♥jxx)?

Or even 21 HCP and same shape + weakness?

It depends. xxx in hearts is a horrible holding and one that would cause me to be cautious. I think you can create a hand on which I’d bid 2S but I’d often have overcalled 1S with that hand. I am an adherent of the late Eric Kokish’s ideas about virtually unlimited..I don’t mean actually unlimited…overcalls.

21 hcp…ok…that’s too rich even for me as a 1S bid. But I have trouble picturing a 5332 hand, including say Jxx in hearts…that wouldn’t reopen with a double or a pass. After all, they are red v white and with 21 hcp and 5332 shape, we have a good chance of doing better on defence than offence.

Bear in mind that, on this hand, it would be weird for advancer to worry about partner holding 21 hcp…that gives both opps a combined 14 count. Even allowing for a 3rd seat opening bid, they are red v white so I think it’s unrealistic to plan one’s actions on the assumptions that neither has anything. Nobody psyches red v white…nobody did it 50 years ago when psyching was fairly common…..and these days many club players seem to think that psyching is or should be illegal, lol.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

you have to raise, you hav 1 1/2 - 2 tricks for p, you could have nothing.

3S vs. 4S is certainly the only question, ..., it depends a bit how strong you need to be,
to make the T/O instead of overcalling.

[jillybean]

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more later

[jillybean]

OK. Perhaps this is a matter of style, or perhaps I've lost my mind.

My X's here are basically shape, with this hand I bid 1♠, but it's close. Do I need to rethink passout seat?

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2025-July-26, 18:18, said:

OK. Perhaps this is a matter of style, or perhaps I've lost my mind.

My X's here are basically shape, with this hand I bid 1♠, but it's close. Do I need to rethink passout seat?

I am a big believer, as I said above, about simple overcalls on strong hands, but this one is, imo, a clear double then spades. It’s not just a 17 count…I have no problem overcalling with 17 or even more but it’s a huge playing hand full of controls and with a very good 6 card suit. While I’m hesitant to say that you lost your mind, I think you’d be in a very tiny minority if you overcalled 1S.

Remove a spade…put it into a minor for example, and you have the same great 17 coun5 but the hand is a full trick weaker in playing strength. Now I bid 1S.

Hand evaluation is about far more than hcp…far more than just controls. That spade 6 is worth more than, say, the diamond King….which might grow up on the auction but your sixth spade, in such a strong suit, has already grown up into a trick.

[TylerE]

mike777, on 2025-July-26, 11:12, said:

On this auction, we get to assume partner has around 7 HCP

No, we don't. That's a bad rule of thumb in general and it's especially bad here with something like 32-34 HCP already accounted for from the auction. Basically for South to *ever* have 7 on this auction the other 3 must be (sub)minimum for their actions so far.

[jillybean]

ok, back to looking at my bidding again.

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This is a pass, agree?

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Tell me more about this? the heart Q is worthless, although it is a stiff and I have 3 trump.
Mike, tell me more about why do you consider 4S here?

[WasWinM]

Try to visualize partner’s hand. Bidding is about trying to reach the best contract of the combined hands. It’s not like responding to an opening bid because this time you have a lot more information about partner’s hand.

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2025-July-28, 09:37, said:

ok, back to looking at my bidding again.

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This is a pass, agree?

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Tell me more about this? the heart Q is worthless, although it is a stiff and I have 3 trump.
Mike, tell me more about why do you consider 4S here?

I consider 4S because I expect that it would have some play….likely under 50% but still some play…opposite a minimum hand for the bidding. The heart queen is usually going to be a negative value…unless partner holds AJ(x) it won’t provide a trick and it’s 2 hcp that the bidding opps don’t have, meaning they’ll have those 2 hcp elsewhere, where they may be valuable on defence. But….and this is a huge but…most opps will lead a heart on this auction and now even a trump switch may not be enough to prevent two ruffs! Plus partner rates to hold something useful in diamonds so he may be in the happy position of using the long diamonds rather than scoring ruffs. And if they lead a trump, threatening our ruffs (on a different layout) that surrenders a tempo and increases the chances of the diamond suit being established.

I’d reject 4S at mps or nv at imps because my opinion is that it might be cold but on average will be under….perhaps only slightly under 50%. At mps, protect the plus unless you think that a higher scoring contract will be at least 50%, bearing in mind that it’s usually impossible to calculate these odds during the auction.

Nv at imps one should bid games even if slightly under 50% so it would be very close and so close it would depend on my mood. Also….my main partners are superb declarers. But at mps, I don’t much care….if my partner is in 3S making 4 while almost all of those in 4S are down 1, I don’t regret missing the game.

Finally, our partnership philosophy, as I’ve said often here, is ‘invite heavy, accept light’. So 3S by me is not a nothing bid.

Indeed, and recognizing how difficult it is to disabuse oneself of seeing both hands,I do think that partner has just enough to raise 3S to game. I love aces and long, strong suits raised by partner.