[ochinko]

You may tear me apart for my poor judgement and undeserved luck, but here is what happened last night. Unfortunately I don't have the complete board with me, and it's gone from the BBO servers, so I can't recall the vulnerabilities. Let's say no one is vulnerable.

I am dealer with:

Scoring: MP

---

We use Muiderberg, so with 2Sp I'd show exactly five spades and 4+ cards in a minor with a hand that has below opening strength. However, I decide I'm too strong for that, and open 1Sp. LHO doubles, partner redoubles, RHO bids 2H.

What to do now? Partner is a golden star, but we don't play often enough (I wonder why ), and I don't have an idea what the redouble means, so I take it as probably SOS. Even so, I'm not in a forced position, so I decide to pass instead of introducing my diamonds. LHO passes, partner jumps to 3NT. RHO passes. I'm biting my nails, but decide that I'm not going to shift the contract, even if LHO doubles. All pass.

RHO leads D8. Looks interesting that he avoids a heart lead, but picks a suit where he doesn't promise anything. Low from dummy, Jack from RHO. Here is partner's hand:

Scoring: MP

---

Partner ducks the diamond. There's quite a chance that West would continue with a red suit, instead of shifting to clubs, and the DQ is marked in West . Indeed, West plays a small heart. If I were the declarer, I'd have jumped with the Ace, praying for 3:2 spades break. +1 would feel great after all the anxiety. Partner, however, deduces correctly that East didn't lead a heart for a lack of honors there (turned out, he had five hearts to the 9), and finesses with the Queen. End result: +2 for 86%.

Petko

[helene_t]

ochinko, on Jul 20 2005, 10:53 AM, said:

I [....] open 1♠. LHO doubles, partner redoubles, RHO bids 2♥.

What to do now? Partner is a golden star, but we don't play often enough (I wonder why  ), and I don't have an idea what the redouble means, so I take it as probably SOS.

That would be an unusual treatment. Rdbl is business, certainly if your opening suit promises real length (I can immagine some would have a different treatment after a nebolous minor suit opening).

Quote

Even so, I'm not in a forced position, so I decide to pass instead of introducing my diamonds.

Allthough you are not in a forced position (partner will get the chance to bid again), the standard treatment (at least here in the Netherlands, it might be different at your place) is that your pass is forcing and shows either a (more or less) ballanced hand or a GF unballanced. So at least at the two-level, a new suit from you would not be forcing. I'm not sure about 3♦ in this position, I suppose it's non-forcing but maybe "pass" is more practical anyway.

FWIW I would have opened 2♠. Since I don't play Muiderberg it would have been a close decision between 1♠ and 2♠.

[coyot]

Redouble is for business. Should promise 10+ HCP, deny support and show interest in doubling whatever contrat they run to.
[Noone I know plays SOS redoubles against a suit opener. Maybe against strong NT, likely against weak NT.]

That is, I would never redouble with 3card support. I know they have an 8card with which they will be most likely safe on 2nd level.

So, the opening hand is 100% pass, because I have an excelent double for another suit and expect partner to double clubs and hearts for penalty.

If he fails to double them, I will have to show my diamonds (but then I know that we have an 8card fit there as well).

This is the downside of shape-based one level openings. You should be prepared to risk the occasional disaster in the form of 2♥x= or even +1.

You would need an explicit agreement that a freebid (instead of giving your p chance to double their suit) indicates weaker 2-suit hand. Without that agreement, this bid could be taken as constructive rather than escaping.

[P_Marlowe]

RDBL is for business, creating
a forcing pass situation.

Depending on the actual vulnerability,
the hand is perfect for your 2S red
versus green, and red versus red.

For other vul. situations: This depends on
your partnership style.

For what's it worth: if I have a opening bid
describing my hand pretty well, I will use it,
your given hand is at best a mininmum opener,
at least playing 2/1 game force.
Personnaly I would pass with this hand.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[ochinko]

Thanks all for the answers.

Actually, our agreement was SAYC, but it occurs to me that Zar openings are even better suited for a system where 1M openings are more limited. In the local club here in Bulgaria I happen to play Precision club with many partners, even though I know very little of it. I'd like to learn it better, but I am discouraged by the many variants that it has. If helene_t decides to compile something from the threads in the Non-Natural System Discussion forum, I'm sure there will be many grateful readers.

Petko

[luke warm]

a comment on the play... instead of playing opening leader for no heart honors, how about K,J 5th? given the jump to 3nt, would you lead a heart from that?

on the bidding, as others have said i'd play xx as 10+, our hand, no fit for spades.. and i'd have bid 3d over 2h (given that i opened to start with)

[POJC]

coyot, on Jul 20 2005, 04:38 AM, said:

Redouble is for business. Should promise 10+ HCP, deny support and show interest in doubling whatever contrat they run to.

That is, I would never redouble with 3card support. I know they have an 8card with which they will be most likely safe on 2nd level.

Well we don't actually know if they have an 8 card fit....
I RDBL with less than primary support and then raise opener. Truscott 2NT to show a RDBL with 4 trump support.

In this way opener can distingish between 3 or 4 trumps...

[ochinko]

luke warm, on Jul 20 2005, 01:52 PM, said:

a comment on the play... instead of playing opening leader for no heart honors, how about K,J 5th? given the jump to 3nt, would you lead a heart from that?

It depends. You could find the declarer with a lonely Ace, or QTx. Partner promised something in hearts, and declarer promised two stoppers, but who are we going to trust more? Even if declarer has AQ, and leading a heart concedes a trick there, it could still be the best lead. If I have any hope for a side entry, I'd often lead under KJxxx in these circumstances.

Petko

[whereagles]

Better forget about doubling them and bid 3♦. The hand is very offensive. Agree with POJC about redouble to show 3 card support and good hand (though artificial methods deal with these hands better).

[Gerben42]

You got extremely lucky here. 3NT is down and 4♠ is making. Also I would have opened 2♠ if that shows a 2-suiter. I guess what happened is that partner played you for a balanced minimum when you passed on your 2nd turn. I can understand both sides of that.

[ochinko]

Gerben42, on Jul 20 2005, 03:38 PM, said:

You got extremely lucky here. 3NT is down and 4♠ is making. Also I would have opened 2♠ if that shows a 2-suiter.

You are right, of course, but I don't see how we would have reached 4Sp if I had opened 2Sp. With my partner's cards it looks like an unnecessary gamble to try to reach for a game with these cards at machpoints.

And the opponents can't be blamed very much for not setting 3NT, because their vital move is at the 2nd trick, which is quite early in the game, and at that point they have three losing options, and only one winning.

Petko

[han]

I don't mind the 1S opening, this is indeed quite a good hand, perhaps too good to preempt.

Over 2H I would have bid 3D. This should show a fairly minimal distributional hand, just what you have. Partner should have no problems placing you in 4S after this start.


The situation where bidding directly is weaker than passing comes up quite often when they are running from your double or redouble. Consider for instance:

1S-(2NT)-Dbl-(3D)

2NT is for the minors, partner's double suggests (s)he can penalize at least one of the minors. With a balanced hand you pass, to give partner the opportunity to double. You can pass even if you have a strong hand, partner won't pass. With 5-5 in the majors you can (a) bid 3H immediately when minimal, or ( pass and pull to 3H when you have extras.