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NT disruption

#1 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:13

Hi

I recently had this one in small IMPs tourney
Spent a while debating pass, double (pen) or 2 hearts (I play Capelletti/Hamilton)



Fortunately I made the right call (scoreise but not playwise) but it could easily have been the wrong call - a trick either way
I certainly did not feel comfortable with a penalty double, thought about defending 1NT etc

Disclaimer I am not sure I was in the strongest field :)
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#2 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:19

With one partner, I'm back playing Landy so this is an easy 2C. 2D! sorry, playing Landy, thinking your system
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#3 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:24

View Postjillybean, on 2025-June-02, 18:19, said:

With one partner, I'm back playing Landy so this is an easy 2C


ok thx, so no debate about defending :)

oops sorry will tell you what happens with Landy, wait a sec

Edit. I don't know Landy well but I think West will pass and North will bid 2 diamonds. I thought Landy was both majors. Are there variants?
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#4 User is offline   akwoo 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:38

I'm passing. It's likely a small minus, but both double and 2H risk a bigger (if less likely) minus.
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#5 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:40

I assume East passes?
I bid my suit.
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
"100% certain that many excellent players would disagree. This is far more about style/judgment than right vs. wrong." Fred
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#6 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:42

View Postjillybean, on 2025-June-02, 18:40, said:

I assume East passes?
I bid my suit.


I assume you would be in 2 hearts :)

But my ignorance of Landy and having to read up about it, if North thinks you have 54 majors there is a chance it could bid 2 spades, not 2 diamonds, so I hope you are bidding a different variant :)

Edit. Reading more on Landy, even if they thought it was 54 majors I think they would bid 2 diamonds :)
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#7 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:45

View Postakwoo, on 2025-June-02, 18:38, said:

I'm passing. It's likely a small minus, but both double and 2H risk a bigger (if less likely) minus.


You have your lead worked out :)

I found it a surprisingly interesting hand to think about all the options - and the actual layout has a lot of interesting options too :)
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#8 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-02, 18:49

I debated passing or doubling but took the cautious option and bid 2 hearts
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#9 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-03, 00:33

I did not get many takers but here is the hand

Ironically 1 NT doubled and the right lead would score a few IMPs

But 2 hearts-1 did ok



Not sure why but I found it quite an interesting result :)
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#10 User is offline   Huibertus 

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Posted 2025-June-03, 01:08

When partner holds Jack this is a double, if he doesn't this is 2 :blink:
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#11 User is offline   bluenikki 

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Posted 2025-June-03, 05:54

View PostHuibertus, on 2025-June-03, 01:08, said:

When partner holds Jack this is a double, if he doesn't this is 2 :blink:

The jack only gets you to the 6th trick.
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#12 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2025-June-03, 07:17

I'm doubling and leading K
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#13 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2025-June-04, 01:52

Hi,

if you go in, than it would be 2H, the hand is not a penalty double.

Should you go in ..., it is 50/50.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#14 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2025-June-04, 01:58

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2025-June-04, 01:52, said:

Hi,

if you go in, than it would be 2H, the hand is not a penalty double.

Should you go in ..., it is 50/50.

With kind regards
Marlowe


I would double with the 4432 version of this hand, I have an obvious lead with the 5 card suit, why not double ?
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#15 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2025-June-04, 03:23

View PostCyberyeti, on 2025-June-04, 01:58, said:

I would double with the 4432 version of this hand, I have an obvious lead with the 5 card suit, why not double ?


Hi,

I usually dont play penalty X against strong NT.
I think the hand is weaker than the 15HCP, e.g. due to the doubleton Q, the heart suit is nice but not running, if you
exchange the Q with the jack of hearts the hand is a lot stronger, and you are certain to make at least 6 tricks, which means at
worst you are 1NTX=
Also I wont be able to get the hearts in, if they run to spade, switch the majors and you will survive a heart runout, I still
would show the 2-suiter, but the penalty gets more attractiv, but than see my starting sentence.

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#16 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2025-June-04, 06:41

View PostP_Marlowe, on 2025-June-04, 03:23, said:

Hi,

I usually dont play penalty X against strong NT.
I think the hand is weaker than the 15HCP, e.g. due to the doubleton Q, the heart suit is nice but not running, if you
exchange the Q with the jack of hearts the hand is a lot stronger, and you are certain to make at least 6 tricks, which means at
worst you are 1NTX=
Also I wont be able to get the hearts in, if they run to spade, switch the majors and you will survive a heart runout, I still
would show the 2-suiter, but the penalty gets more attractiv, but than see my starting sentence.

With kind regards
Marlowe


We do, and because dummy is shorter of entries on a 20/20 it tends to do better. Also many strong NT pairs are not great with their runouts.
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#17 User is online   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2025-June-04, 09:48

You know your customers better than I do, if it works, brilliant.
AWN said, that the standards for a 15-17 NT are declining in the US, and Frances Hinden said once, that psyching of a strong NT was
also a popular thing (at least in 3rd) seat, ... all those make penalty doubles more attractive.
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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#18 User is offline   thepossum 

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Posted 2025-June-04, 17:34

I did consider pass or double for quite some time but wasn't sure I would find the defence
It looks like a nice hand though :)
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