[pescetom]

barmar, on 2024-November-15, 13:58, said:

I used the MacBook on WiFi when I played on BBO for a couple of hours last night, but didn't get any slow connection warnings. So I think it's the tablet that's slow.

But the important point is that it's not at the BBO end.

In the same room and position that you use the tablet?
What suggests the BBO end is at least part of the problem is that often there are no similar problems with Realbridge, Zoom, Netflix or whatever on the same tablet and wifi. And it's not because they use low bandwidth or can live with long delays.

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2024-November-16, 16:34, said:

In the same room and position that you use the tablet?

The computer is about 3 feet from the modem, the easy chair where I use the tablet is about 9 feet.

Quote

What suggests the BBO end is at least part of the problem is that often there are no similar problems with Realbridge, Zoom, Netflix or whatever on the same tablet and wifi. And it's not because they use low bandwidth or can live with long delays.

Since the design of our service is completely different from those other services, you can't really compare them. They don't use the same method to detect a poor connection, or they may just not be as sensitive to it.

[doubleace]

This is definitely a bbo problem. I have advised them of the problems numerous times without any resolution. Hope they realize it’s a bbo problem and resolve it soon.

[barmar]

Last night I was flying to Las Vegas for the NABC. I was connected to the airline WiFi, playing on BBO and listening to internet radio. Almost every time I got the slow connection warning my radio also cut out for a bit.

So it was detecting an actual connection problem, not unique to BBO.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2024-November-29, 10:21, said:

Last night I was flying to Las Vegas for the NABC. I was connected to the airline WiFi, playing on BBO and listening to internet radio. Almost every time I got the slow connection warning my radio also cut out for a bit.

So it was detecting an actual connection problem, not unique to BBO.

I hear you, and agree that actual connection problems are present when BBO gets upset.
But I'm not sure why you think BBO has a right to get upset when services with the same purpose (Realbridge) have no issue with those same problems and continue to accurately register play and handle video seamlessly too.

[jillybean]

I'm starting to have issues that warn me of "slow connection" , playing on my laptop via bridgebase.com. I am experiencing significant lags.

At the time, I was the only user using our home internet.

[doubleace]

The slow connection is a bbo problem. You are right it makes playing bridge on bbo unenjoyable.

[doubleace]

I wonder when BBO will admit the slow connection signal is their problem and finally fix it. I have reported the problem numerous times with no resolution.

[ronc0921]

It’s been happening to me for the last 2 months too.
I primarily logon to the web page on an iPad. Within a few minutes I get the “slow connection” message.
Same thing happens but less frequently on a laptop.
Rebooted modem and router.
Rebooted iPad and laptop.

Issue still happens.

On any other site, there is no issue with response. If I test my download speeds they are more than enough for streaming let alone web pages.

One thing I did notice - the issue primarily happens during the course of the play of a board. Whether kibitzing or actually playing, responses slow down. But if I chat during play, switch to different tabs, click on the “hamburger” to check CC or “go to other table” it is very responsive.

During the bidding and the play of the hand, slow as molasses.

What changed?

[barmar]

BBO is more sensitive to latency and packet loss, it doesn't need lots of bandwidth like streaming does.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I often get that message on my Fire tablet, but never on my Macbook. I assume it's because the Macbook has a higher quality connection to the router.

Based on your IP, you're using Comcast in MA, just as I am, so I think the problem is probably within your home LAN. I'm not sure what to suggest in terms of troubleshooting the problem.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2025-January-03, 18:02, said:

BBO is more sensitive to latency and packet loss, it doesn't need lots of bandwidth like streaming does.

Both assertions are true, but together they constitute a notable non sequitur.

There is no evident reason why BBO should be sensitive to latency or packet loss, given that it exchanges small packets of data with seconds (not milliseconds) of tolerance for any error and should be able to rely on standard or proprietary recovery methods. Yet it is, more so than streaming apps which exchange thousands of times more data over the same connection and are inherently vulnerable to these problems.

[barmar]

pescetom, on 2025-January-04, 14:10, said:

Both assertions are true, but together they constitute a notable non sequitur.

There is no evident reason why BBO should be sensitive to latency or packet loss, given that it exchanges small packets of data with seconds (not milliseconds) of tolerance for any error and should be able to rely on standard or proprietary recovery methods. Yet it is, more so than streaming apps which exchange thousands of times more data over the same connection and are inherently vulnerable to these problems.

The difference between BBO and a streaming app is how your connection impacts other users.

If you have a poor connection with a streaming app, it just displays "Buffering..." or some graphic and keeps trying. You can decide when to give up.

But if you're having a poor connection in a bridge game, all the other players are waiting for you and getting frustrated. In a tournament, there's a time limit for the round. So when a user is having connection problems, we want to detect this in a reasonable time.

There's also a technical issue. The TCP protocol used to connect to the servers doesn't provide any direct way to tell when network connectivity has failed; there's nothing like a "dial tone". So the client and server each send "heartbeat" messages to each other periodically. If they don't receive these messages in a reasonable period, the assumption is that the connection has failed and they shut it down.

[noryann]

Has anyone identified a solution to this? I have recently started having exactly this problem.

[pescetom]

barmar, on 2025-January-08, 17:01, said:

The difference between BBO and a streaming app is how your connection impacts other users.

If you have a poor connection with a streaming app, it just displays "Buffering..." or some graphic and keeps trying. You can decide when to give up.

But if you're having a poor connection in a bridge game, all the other players are waiting for you and getting frustrated. In a tournament, there's a time limit for the round. So when a user is having connection problems, we want to detect this in a reasonable time.

Yes, but the point is that many if not most of the players diagnosed by BBO as "having connection problems" are ready to play and have a connection sufficient for other applications with much higher bandwidth requirements and timing issues.

barmar, on 2025-January-08, 17:01, said:

There's also a technical issue. The TCP protocol used to connect to the servers doesn't provide any direct way to tell when network connectivity has failed; there's nothing like a "dial tone". So the client and server each send "heartbeat" messages to each other periodically. If they don't receive these messages in a reasonable period, the assumption is that the connection has failed and they shut it down.

It's been almost four decades since I implemented the full ISO/OSI suite but I do remember something about technical issues
BBO certainly had a working "heartbeat" mechanism back in the dialup days.
I seem to remember documenting a sequence which proved the heartbeat was malfunctioning in the early days of the current web client.
That may have been fixed since, although it was not even acknowledged then.

There are certainly still technical problems, even for those of us wired to a router on fibre.
Like this evening when at the end of a round in a clocked tournament I was replaying a board with double dummy to see how the robot had screwed up, I suddenly heard the noise of a new round. I refreshed the screen and found myself looking at the list of tournaments: I messaged the TD and was told "you are still playing", but still saw just the list of tournaments. I refreshed and it worked.