[JSSMP1]

Me and my partner play that a double of any 4♠ bid or higher is for penalty. Due to a recent auction, I think there are better measures available and I'm interested in learning more.
I can find a lot of sources on how to handle a preemptive opening. However, in the recent auctions, I mainly dealt with responder preemptively jumping to 4h/s (after a my partner bid or passed). Also auctions where they were clearly sacrificing (non-vulnerable). I know some methods (like 4NT two-suited, forcing pass), but I'm actually looking for a more comprehensive overview on conventions and how to bid in those types of situations.

I'm not expecting anyone to explain entire systems here (unless you want to), but a reference to a good source would help a lot as well.

[DavidKok]

Larry Cohen's website is a good place to start. This article in particular.

I think more generally you are looking for a description of doubles as the level of the bidding changes. That is a pretty long topic with quite a lot of confusion surrounding it, not to mention that partnerships have their own preferences.
There are only a limited number of conventions available after such high level intervention. Most bids need to be offers to play by necessity, and a few (some notrump bids, the cue bid, some unexpected jump bids) can have artificial meaning. Forcing pass and pass-double inversion can also expand your arsenal, but these generally need to be set up earlier in the auction.

One nice gadget on e.g. (4♠)-X-(P)-? is 4NT as "two places to play or a weak 5♥ bid", with the direct 5♥ being more constructive. Doubler bids their cheapest suit they are prepared to play, and responder corrects if necessary.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

As it is the room between 4S and 7NT is quite cramped, i.e. there is not a lot
of system.

a double of 4S is based on strength, it is not a pure T/O.
A 4NT bid takes over the role of a pure T/O action, ..., usually 2-places to play.
With regards to hearts, strong hands, with some slam interest will also go through 4NT.

Reacting to a double: In general it is a good idea to take the offered money
only with extreme distribution should you take it out, for that matter 4NT as a
response is now quite often some sort of scrambling.

If you are looking for a book: Marshall Miles - Competitive Bidding for the 21st century
is quite good, ..., but he had a certain fame for being a lone rider sometimes.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[JSSMP1]

DavidKok, on 2024-January-09, 07:29, said:

Larry Cohen's website is a good place to start. This article in particular.

I think more generally you are looking for a description of doubles as the level of the bidding changes. That is a pretty long topic with quite a lot of confusion surrounding it, not to mention that partnerships have their own preferences.
There are only a limited number of conventions available after such high level intervention. Most bids need to be offers to play by necessity, and a few (some notrump bids, the cue bid, some unexpected jump bids) can have artificial meaning. Forcing pass and pass-double inversion can also expand your arsenal, but these generally need to be set up earlier in the auction.

One nice gadget on e.g. (4♠)-X-(P)-? is 4NT as "two places to play or a weak 5♥ bid", with the direct 5♥ being more constructive. Doubler bids their cheapest suit they are prepared to play, and responder corrects if necessary.

Thanks for the reply! The article is really useful to understand the meaning of double. I'm going to lookup 4NT and forcing-pass / pass-double-inversion as well.

[JSSMP1]

P_Marlowe, on 2024-January-09, 07:34, said:

Hi,

As it is the room between 4S and 7NT is quite cramped, i.e. there is not a lot
of system.

a double of 4S is based on strength, it is not a pure T/O.
A 4NT bid takes over the role of a pure T/O action, ..., usually 2-places to play.
With regards to hearts, strong hands, with some slam interest will also go through 4NT.

Reacting to a double: In general it is a good idea to take the offered money
only with extreme distribution should you take it out, for that matter 4NT as a
response is now quite often some sort of scrambling.

If you are looking for a book: Marshall Miles - Competitive Bidding for the 21st century
is quite good, ..., but he had a certain fame for being a lone rider sometimes.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Thanks Marlowe! Good tips, and I'll check out the book you recommended.

[TylerE]

I'm not a big fan of hard and fast rules, but the general principle I prefer here is nominally takeout doubles through 7♠, but the higher the level the more "takeout" is likely to be values rather than shape, and that, especially above 3NT, it will often be right for advancer to leave the double in with no real suit of their own, even without much in the way of values. Yes you'll eat a random -780 or something once in a blue moon, but you win a lot more than you lose. The nature of matchpoints I think really favors this strategy. If we're wrong, it doesn't really matter HOW wrong. A bottom's a bottom. Next board. This also means that when you're really right, you don't have to be right by a huge magnitude. Scoring +500 when the field is +480 is crushing. This style really puts a lot of pressure on opponents. So many players (including me...) preempt so light these days, that doubled and passed out is generally a really scary spot to be in. We're preempting to basically force you to bid your hand quickly and without your favorite gadgets, hopefully getting it wrong. Refusing to play that game and making us play some miserable part score doubled and down a thousand is not good for morale, lemme tell ya.

[pescetom]

JSSMP1, on 2024-January-09, 07:50, said:

Thanks for the reply! The article is really useful to understand the meaning of double. I'm going to lookup 4NT and forcing-pass / pass-double-inversion as well.

You may find it tricky to pin down forcing-pass, the wikipedia article is a decent start but the devil is in the detail.
Wonder if anyone has a better source.

JSSMP1, on 2024-January-09, 07:52, said:

Thanks Marlowe! Good tips, and I'll check out the book you recommended.

I would also suggest "The Competitive Auction" by Roy Hughes.