[shyams]

MPs --- white vs. red.

Partner (dealer) opens 1♣ and opponent passes.

You hold: ♠Q ♥10xxx ♦Q ♣AK109876

[jillybean]

edit...1H

If 2C is not GF

You need an agreement to show a gf raise when partner opens a minor, for me this is 1C:2C
Without agreements it is unlikely that you will have an intelligent auction and will be forced to jump to game on your second bid.
What are your agreements after 1C 1H 1x?

[pescetom]

I bid 1♥ whatever the agreements...
but I imagine others may want to know more about 1♣ opening (could it be 2 cards and when?) and "inverted minors".

[mw64ahw]

My other is 1♠ which I play as game invitational

[LBengtsson]

Even at white/red there are two suits missing from my hand that suggests that the opps. will be able to bid one of them and have a fit and crash in on the auction. So 2♣ it is with the idea of partner playing 3NT, stopping the opps. entering the auction - hopefully, and seeing what partner can bid next? Usually I would bid 1♥ with 4M but the ♣ support is so strong I think that takes priority her even if the 1♣ opener is 2+.

You can find any 4/4 ♥ fit later in the auction, I feel, so tell partner you want to be in game here. He does not need much for 3NT to make, and ♥10xxx is hardly a great ♥ suit. I would rather tell the truth with a 2♣ bid: that is what my hand is about and that is what I am going to tell partner with my first bid.

[DavidKok]

Even with a 4-4 heart fit I'm playing this hand in clubs. I believe "Don't tap a swan on its beak" refers to this exact situation. The point is that this hand is only great in hearts if the clubs establish, at which point you may as well play in clubs. I'm expecting that we'll get to 5♣ unless partner bids 3NT quickly, though I'm not ruling out slam potential. Incidentally we're also better placed in competition if we show the long clubs now.

I've been ignoring 4-card suits in favour of 7-card suits for a while now and have yet to get a poor result from that 'rule'.

[pescetom]

DavidKok, on 2023-April-02, 15:13, said:

Even with a 4-4 heart fit I'm playing this hand in clubs. I believe "Don't tap a swan on its beak" refers to this exact situation. The point is that this hand is only great in hearts if the clubs establish, at which point you may as well play in clubs. I'm expecting that we'll get to 5♣ unless partner bids 3NT quickly, though I'm not ruling out slam potential. Incidentally we're also better placed in competition if we show the long clubs now.

I've been ignoring 4-card suits in favour of 7-card suits for a while now and have yet to get a poor result from that 'rule'.

I suspect that with a 4-4 heart fit you have a better chance in 3NT than in clubs or hearts.
But I think the most important thing as always is that partner is singing from the same page, almost any agreement is playable here so long as both understand the implications of the developments.

[shyams]

pescetom, on 2023-April-02, 12:41, said:

I bid 1♥ whatever the agreements...
but I imagine others may want to know more about 1♣ opening (could it be 2 cards and when?) and "inverted minors".

Sorry to have not explicitly state it in the OP.
a. 1♣ is 3+ cards, and
b. 2♣ is forcing for 1 round, not a game-force

[shyams]

jillybean, on 2023-April-02, 10:07, said:

What are your agreements after 1C 1H 1x?

Responder can (and will) bid the unbid minor (2♦) to create a game force. THe 2♦ itself will not confirm/convey a fit for any suit(s) bid so far

[mikeh]

jillybean, on 2023-April-02, 10:07, said:

edit...1H

If 2C is not GF

You need an agreement to show a gf raise when partner opens a minor, for me this is 1C:2C
Without agreements it is unlikely that you will have an intelligent auction and will be forced to jump to game on your second bid.
What are your agreements after 1C 1H 1x?

I’ve played for a long time and only in one short-lived partnership did I have a forcing raise in a minor, and I haven’t missed it at all

While one can, for example, play a jumpshift in the other minor as limit and the single raise as gf, I think that’s a waste of bidding tools.

A proper inverted method does require some work, and memory….and won’t much resemble the inverted minors taught as ‘standard’, but will include the single raise as limit or better.

In my two current partnerships, we do play a sophisticated inverted structure in one (invented, I’m told, by kokish) while in the other, we don’t, but don’t miss it. We play 1M 2S as a limit raise or better. However, our 1C and 1D structures are non-standard.

On this hand, I think I’d bid 4C. Takes us past 3N which may well be the best spot but I’m not excited about letting them bid spades.

[jillybean]

Yes, I should have said forcing minor raise.

[nullve]

1♥

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2023-April-02, 15:38, said:

I suspect that with a 4-4 heart fit you have a better chance in 3NT than in clubs or hearts.
But I think the most important thing as always is that partner is singing from the same page, almost any agreement is playable here so long as both understand the implications of the developments.

Well maybe unless partner has xxx opposite one of your stiff Qs.

We would bid 2♣ not GF, may contain 4M, the key question for the OP is whether the invert can contain 4M, and whether you're prepared to lie about the hearts. There are not many hands on which you want to play in hearts, but there are some (xxx, AKxx, Kxx, QJx) at teams, more at pairs where you make 420/450 vs 400, OP hasn't said if the 3 card club goes with a weak or strong NT.

[shyams]

Cyberyeti, on 2023-April-03, 02:42, said:

Well maybe unless partner has xxx opposite one of your stiff Qs.

We would bid 2♣ not GF, may contain 4M, the key question for the OP is whether the invert can contain 4M, and whether you're prepared to lie about the hearts. There are not many hands on which you want to play in hearts, but there are some (xxx, AKxx, Kxx, QJx) at teams, more at pairs where you make 420/450 vs 400, OP hasn't said if the 3 card club goes with a weak or strong NT.

1NT opening is 15-17.

Normally, 1m - 2m will deny a 4 card major holding. Your post refers to a very valid point i.e. would one be prepared to lie about the hearts?

This is perhaps the core issue. I thought the disparity in length+strength between clubs & hearts was so huge that I was happy to hide the heart suit and lie to partner.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

other.

I make a splinter bid.
I am 7-4, and the general advice is to treat 7-4 as single suited, we have 10+ fit, we will play it.
If you make the diamond slinter, they may have trouble getting into the action, being red vs. green
do they really want to sac. in 5D?

With kind regards
Marlowe