[straube]

Looking for help adapting awm's 1H-1S rebid structure. I really like his structure. Partner likely doesn't want to add something new here but it's of theoretical interest to me. Our 1H-1S shows...

1) 4S and less than GI strength, denying then 3H
2) 5S and 6+ hcps

We get rid of our GI 4S hands by replying 2C first.
I'm thinking we could switch our 1H-2S from a WJS to GI 6+S. It's kind of wrong to preempt opener with a likely bad spade suit when opener could have a good heart suit.

By strong invites, all I mean is 12-13 while light invites would be 10-11. Of course the way we open lighter and lighter perhaps it should be
13-14 and 11-12.

Then...

1H-1S

1N-4+D 10-15 or 2-5-3-3 11-13
.....2C-puppets 2D for pass or light invite
..........2D-
...............2H-GI, 2-fit
...............2S-GI, 5 only S
.....2D-GF relay ask
..........2H-2-5-3-3 (a waste I know)
..........2S-5/5
..........2N-5+/4, higer
..........etc
.....2H-2-fit
.....2S-6S, weak
.....2N-strong invite with 5S
.....etc-strong invites with 5S

2C-4C
.....2D-puppets 2H for pass or light invite
..........2H-
...............P-preference
...............2S-GI, 5 only S
.....2H-GF relay ask
..........2S-5/5
..........etc
.....2S-6S, weak
.....etc-strong invites with 5S

2D-weak raise, could be 11-13 3-5-(32)
.....2H-to play
..........2S-4S
.....2S-to play

2H-6H, 11-15
.....2S-GF relay
.....2N-GI, 5S

2S-strong raise, could be 35(41)
.....2N-GF asking?

I think I'd rather use the 2D for the weak raise since it includes the 3-5-(32)s and this gives us the option of playing a 5/2 heart fit when available to a 4/3 spade fit.

Any thoughts? Simplicity is a consideration.

[awm]

It's important to be able to get out in 2-red with the light invite; 2NT with 11 in each hand will quite frequently go down. You seem to have lost the ability to play 2♥ on a declined light invite after 1♥-1♠-2♣ here, and the ability to play 2♦ after 1♥-1♠-1NT in a similar situation. You seem to be prioritizing GF relays over the various invites here, which is probably not right from a frequency standpoint and almost surely wrong from an expected score standpoint (since usually natural GF bidding will break even with relays, but getting too high consistently on declined invites is not recoverable).

We decided to swap the good/bad raises too for similar reasons. In fact we now have:

1♥-1♠-3♦ = very good 4-card raise, high shortage (♥+♦ hands can rebid 1NT)
1♥-1♠-3♠+ = very good 4-card raise, low shortage

[straube]

Thanks. What are your continuations after 1H-1S, 2C-2D? You have a step less here.

Also, for me 1H-1S, 1N-2C, 2H- I'm thinking I should use my 2S rebid as an artificial GF and other bids as nf. After all, responder can't have GI 6S so there is little merit in trying to stop in 2S.

Glad to see you've swapped the 2D and 2S rebids and added the 3D and 3S rebids.


So far it's looking like...

1N-
.....2C-GF club stopper ask or any GI
..........2D-weak
...............2H-to play
...............3C-GF stopper ask
...............other-GI natural
..........2H-medium
...............2S-artificial, requests 2N for p/c
...............other-GF natural
..........etc-GF
.....2D-to play
.....2H-to play
.....2S-to play
.....etc-natural GF

2C-
.....2D-GF diamond stopper ask or any GI
..........2H-weak
...............2S-artificial, requests 2N for p/c
...............other-GI
..........etc-GF natural
.....2H-to play
.....2S-to play
.....etc-natural GF

2D-weak raise, possible 35(32)
.....2H-2-fit
..........2S-4S
.....2S-to play
.....2N-not possible
.....etc-GF 5 spades

2H-6H, 11-15
.....2S-GF, coincidentally promising 5 spades
..........natural, no relays
.....2N-GI, coincidentally promising 5 spades
.....etc-GI

2S-strong raise, possible 3-5-(41)
.....2N-light invite (10-11ish), 4 spades
.....3S-GI
.....etc-GF 5 spades

[awm]

What we play is closer to what you have in your second attempt; we just play steps over the 4th suit bid basically.

[straube]

It would be nice if 1H-1S, 1N-2C and 1H-1S, 2C-2D were symmetric but obviously off a step. After 1H-1S, 2C-2D, if 2S shows 13-15 there's not really room to show a light invite. I'd almost be willing to give up a step for 1H-1S, 1N-2C for simplicity's sake.

1H-1S, 1N-2C,

.....2D-not accepting a light invite
..........2H-light invite, to play
..........2S-light invite, requests 2N
..........etc-heavy invite
.....2H-not used or maybe not accepting light invite and 5/5 reds?
..........2S-light invite, requests 2N
.....etc-GF natural

1H-1S, 2C-2D,

.....2H-not accepting a light invite
..........2S-light invite, requests 2N
..........etc-heavy invite
.....etc-GF natural

Does this give up too much?

[awm]

Seems okay, but you can probably make better use of 1♥-1♠-1NT-2♣-2♥. Maybe 2♥ = 2533 11-13? Conceivably could get you to a good partial (and it's not that likely you want to play 2♦ here).

[straube]

I like that. Thanks for helping.

[Zelandakh]

Would it not work to rebid 1NT with a minimum with higher rebids being natural and showing a little extra? This effectively gets the light invites out of the way on Opener's rebid. I daresay it loses a fair bit compared to Adam's method but does have the benefit of being relatively simple.

[straube]

Zelandakh, on 2015-March-23, 10:38, said:

Would it not work to rebid 1NT with a minimum with higher rebids being natural and showing a little extra? This effectively gets the light invites out of the way on Opener's rebid. I daresay it loses a fair bit compared to Adam's method but does have the benefit of being relatively simple.

What would opener's other rebids look like? I'm a bit skeptical that there's room enough to show extras vs minimums as well as all the other distributional possibilities.

[Zelandakh]

I was thinking of nothing more exciting than natural to be honest. Over 1NT Responder would bid a minor (NF) with type #1 or a higher call with type #2. A 2♣ rebid should not be a problem (it is tighter than the suggested 2♣). 2♦ of course has less space so no nice relays. Against that you only need one invite range so a little gets reclaimed back. I have not thought it through much more than that. It seems to me playable but not optimal. I am assuming Adam already worked out an optimal artificial solution so it seemed pointless working on that side of things.

[Nirmalya]

straube, on 2015-March-22, 11:15, said:

Looking for help adapting awm's 1H-1S rebid structure. I really like his structure. Partner likely doesn't want to add something new here but it's of theoretical interest to me. Our 1H-1S shows...

1) 4S and less than GI strength, denying then 3H
2) 5S and 6+ hcps

We get rid of our GI 4S hands by replying 2C first.
I'm thinking we could switch our 1H-2S from a WJS to GI 6+S. It's kind of wrong to preempt opener with a likely bad spade suit when opener could have a good heart suit.

By strong invites, all I mean is 12-13 while light invites would be 10-11. Of course the way we open lighter and lighter perhaps it should be
13-14 and 11-12.

Then...

1H-1S

1N-4+D 10-15 or 2-5-3-3 11-13
.....2C-puppets 2D for pass or light invite
..........2D-
...............2H-GI, 2-fit
...............2S-GI, 5 only S
.....2D-GF relay ask
..........2H-2-5-3-3 (a waste I know)
..........2S-5/5
..........2N-5+/4, higer
..........etc
.....2H-2-fit
.....2S-6S, weak
.....2N-strong invite with 5S
.....etc-strong invites with 5S

2C-4C
.....2D-puppets 2H for pass or light invite
..........2H-
...............P-preference
...............2S-GI, 5 only S
.....2H-GF relay ask
..........2S-5/5
..........etc
.....2S-6S, weak
.....etc-strong invites with 5S

2D-weak raise, could be 11-13 3-5-(32)
.....2H-to play
..........2S-4S
.....2S-to play

2H-6H, 11-15
.....2S-GF relay
.....2N-GI, 5S

2S-strong raise, could be 35(41)
.....2N-GF asking?

I think I'd rather use the 2D for the weak raise since it includes the 3-5-(32)s and this gives us the option of playing a 5/2 heart fit when available to a 4/3 spade fit.

Any thoughts? Simplicity is a consideration.

How do you deal with 11-13 0=5=4=4 hands?

[mw64ahw]

Nirmalya, on 2022-May-06, 01:53, said:

How do you deal with 11-13 0=5=4=4 hands?

Not what I play, but my interpretation would be your choice after 1♥-1♠:

a) 2♣ - Pass/Correct
b) 1NT - Pass
c) 1NT - 2♣ asking for ♦

I'd bid 1NT unless ♣ were top heavy