[mike777]

1) Axxx= Axx=xx= Kxxx Dealer

xx=KQJTx=AJ=AQJx


2)x = AJT9xxx=Txx = Kx Dealer Both vul.

[Winstonm]

1 of 2 ways for me:

1C-1H
1S-2C checkback
2H-3C Club slam try
3H-4D
4S-4N
5D-6C
P

or

P-1H
2C* Drury -2N (Serious)
3C-3D
3S-4C
4H-6C
P

[luke warm]

#1) i can do this playing 2/1 with weak nt, but i don't quite think i can stretch 6c playing 'regular'... in weak nt

1nt : 2d - gf
2s : 2nt - 4 spades, relay
3c : 3d - 4 clubs, relay
3s : 4c - 4324, cab
4s : 4nt - 5 controls, spiral
5s : 6c - S, C, H, placing (can see which controls)

if i'm honest, i can't seem to bid anything other than 6h playing 'normal'

p : 1h
1nt : 2c
3h : 3nt (serious but no spade control)
4c : 4d
4s : 4nt
5d : 6h

#2) 3h

[Double !]

Is it my imagination, or have a number of these "how do you bid this?" problems involved hands where responder has had a hand than many would have considered to be worth a strong jump-shift when such a bid wasn't synonymous with novice or developmentally delayed (bridge-wise)?

I am of the school that believes that there are just some hands that one has to get off his/her chest early in the bidding before things become convoluted.

[luke warm]

maybe you're right, maybe

p : 1h
1nt : 3c

is the way to go

[Winstonm]

Quote

Is it my imagination, or have a number of these "how do you bid this?" problems involved hands where responder has had a hand than many would have considered to be worth a strong jump-shift

There is no doubt the strong jump shift aids slam bidding, and not all the experts disagree with your position. Although by now it's a little aged, the original version of Power Precision used strong jump shifts. Mike Lawrence is still a proponent of strong jump shifts. And whether he plays them with Hamman I don't know, but Soloway used to be of this mindset also.

I think a lot of the problem many face is that in Walsh-style responding, the invitational 5/5 and 5/4 hands are difficult, and many sacrifice strong jump shifts and weak jump shifts in order to show these "medium" hands. Trade offs. That's what bidding comes down to.

WinstonM

[inquiry]

Zar point count fans would open north 1C (it has 10 distriutional points, 11 hpc, and 5 control points, for 26, an easy ZAR opening. South has 18 hcp, 12 distributional, and 5 control points for 35. 26 + 35 = 61, one short of sufficient points for slam (according to Zar).

But south then gets two more points for two club honors, coming to 63 zar points. so south should be thinking slam from the opening bid.

Second board, i would open 1♥.. if it was legal, otherwise, i would open 2♥.

[Winstonm]

Quote

Zar point count fans would open north 1C (it has 10 distriutional points, 11 hpc, and 5 control points, for 26, an easy ZAR opening. South has 18 hcp, 12 distributional, and 5 control points for 35. 26 + 35 = 61, one short of sufficient points for slam (according to Zar).

My understanding of Zar is that there are two basic types of auctions, A and B.

Isn't this one a little B Zar?

WinstonM

[P_Marlowe]

Double !, on Jun 13 2005, 07:16 PM, said:

Is it my imagination, or have a number of these "how do you bid this?" problems involved hands where responder has had a hand than many would have considered to be worth a strong jump-shift when such a bid wasn't synonymous with novice or developmentally delayed (bridge-wise)?

I am of the school that believes that there are just some hands that one has to get off his/her chest early in the bidding before things become convoluted.

Hi,

you are right.

Strong jump shifts solve a lot of problems, having a frequency
similar to weak jumb shifts, but "adv." player dont play them,
because they believe, thats "novice" stuff, and explain their
dislike with the low freq. of occurrence, but do not bother to
calculate the freq.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Gerben42]

My novices don't play them because I won't tell them about them!

I agree that SJS solve some problems, but they also create some other ones (those who claim SJS are standard would have to read this as "does not solve some other problems")

If you have a SJS you would like to play SJS, if you have a WJS you would like to play WJS. If you hold neither you would like to play WJS and that's the REAL point.

1st way:

1♣ - 1♥ -
1NT (11 - 13 playing a 14 - 16 NT, otherwise not worth opening in the first place)
- 2♦ (new minor forcing)
2♥ (minimum with 3 hearts)
- 3♣ (natural and slam interest)
4♣ (fit) - 4♦ (kickback)
4♥ (three) - 6♣

2nd way:

1NT (11 - 13 when not vuln) - Relay out the shape and bid 6♣. (This is the "2/1" I play with my regular partner. See I told you 2/1 was not a system! It's a convention).

3rd way (playing 15-17 NT):

Pass (I guess this is "standard" if such exists) - 1♥
2♣ Drury - 3♣ (maximum opening, natural)
4♣ (slam interest, double fit) - 4♦ (kickback for ♣)
4♥ (three) - 6♣

Other hand: Open 3♥.

[mike777]

Wow, I see many had an easy time with these hands.

Both these hands were tough and a learning experience for me.

[Fluffy]

I see 3 hands, I dunno what is going on, would love to see diagrams, or positions, you know... something.

[luke warm]

i didn't find #1 easy, unless playing weak nt... then it's only easy if opps don't jump in

[Winstonm]

Final word: I would suggest Justin's answer as the best of the lot...simple and effective - I would have bid this way too but had to simplify even further as I now have my partner's brain fried trying to remember all my new inventions, LoL. I must be the "B" Flight Marty Bergen, LoL.

WinstonM

And remember this: The French always supported Marcel Marceau because: " A good mime is a terrible thing to waste."

[mike777]

Gerben42, on Jun 14 2005, 04:29 AM, said:

1st way:

1♣ - 1♥ -
1NT (11 - 13 playing a 14 - 16 NT, otherwise not worth opening in the first place)
- 2♦ (new minor forcing)
2♥ (minimum with 3 hearts)
     - 3♣ (natural and slam interest)
4♣ (fit) - 4♦ (kickback)
4♥ (three) - 6♣

nd: Open 3♥.

1) I think Gerben's was even clearer than the real life bidding to 6c. thanks.
Email from buddy

Luckily we kept the match close because of a fourth
game
we reached:

Axxx - AJxx AJTxx
x AJT9xxx Txx Kx




Both Vul... Our auction:
1H 2C
2H 2S
3H 4H

What do you open in your system with my hand? I'd be more inclined to
pre-empt if I didn't have both the ace of my suit and an outside King.
We
open light in high cards all the time, especially with good suits and
distribution. The play is somewhat interesting. I got a low diamond
out
to the queen on my right, and a spade back to the ace. I see now that
maybe
I should have crossed to my hand in clubs, but I ruffed a spade
instead. I
banged out a trump to lefty, who tapped me in spades, rather than
continuing
diamonds. Trumps turned out to be 2-4, so in the end, I had to guess
which
minor to finesse, and correctly guessed diamonds (mainly because lefty
didn't continue diamonds).

Here's one more hand:

Axxx Axx xx Kxxx
xx KQJTx AJ AQJx


Our auction:
1C 1H
1S 2D*
2H 3C
3H 4D**
4H 6C
* Fourth suit forcing
** Kickback (Ace Asking) for clubs......

2H bid showed 3 hearts. I could have settled for playing in
hearts,
but I had my sights on the club suit. Now when he bids 3H over 3
clubs, I
am convinced that he has 4 clubs. Otherwise he'd be 4-3-3-3, and he
might
have bid no trump with that distribution at one of his opportunities,
especially the last one. So I ask for key cards in clubs by bidding
4D.
... shows 3 of them, I can count the tricks, but only playing in
clubs! Had he shown just 2 key cards, I'd still be thinking about
it...

Hughie won the only two (major) events he entered. He's
passed up
10,000 career points this year, by the way.

[Fluffy]

I think I Can now seee what is going on, ,I would had bid exactly as mike, except that I would had bid either 3♠ or 4♠ instead of 3♥ or 4♥.

[inquiry]

mike777, on Jun 14 2005, 09:27 PM, said:

Axxx - AJxx AJTxx
x AJT9xxx Txx Kx


Both Vul... Our auction:
1H 2C
2H 2S
3H 4H

What do you open in your system with my hand? I'd be more inclined to pre-empt if I didn't have both the ace of my suit and an outside King.

As I said in my reply above, I would open this hand 1♥ IF it was legal . Some silly organizations will not allow you to open 1♥ with this opening hand.

My auction with my favorite partners would have been identical to yours, but with different meanings.....

1♥ (1) ---- 2♣ (2)
2♥ (3) ---- 2♠ (4)
3♥ (5) ---- 4♥ (6) ok, ok....
Pass

1 - Easy opening bid with 26 zar points
2 - either clubs game force, drury good raise, or balanced 11+
3 - I have a hand that would pass any drury kind of raise
4 - shows real clubs and spades too, 100% game force
5 - toss up between 3♥ and 4♥, prefer 3...
6 - ok, ok,,, game in your suit.

On the first hand, your conclusion that your partner has at least 4♣ is 100% right... because as you said, with 4-3-3-3 he would rebid 1NT and with 4-4-2-3 he would have raised hearts. Having said that, I am not too thrilled with your auction. I don't like your asking for ACES with two small spades. My auction would have been similiar (remember, I showed you that you are clearly in slam zone in clubs via zar count).

Axxx Axx xx Kxxx
xx KQJTx AJ AQJx

My auction:
1C (1) --- 1H (2)
1S (3) --- 2D (4)
2H (5) --- 3C (6)
3H (7) --- 4C (8)
4S (9) --- 6C (10)

1 - 26 Zar points, I open, np.
2 - I play 2H as reverse flannery by responder, so 1♥ even with strong hand
3 - This will promise four clubs as well
4 - 2♦ xyz, GAME FORCE
5 - I raise to 2♥ with 4-3-1-5, or 4-3-0-6 so partner can figure my likely dist...
6 - 3♣ = clubs likely trump suit, since 3♥ here would ahve been forcing
7 - useful heart card (AK or Q), denies a diamond control (thus no singleton, either)
8 - trump cue-bid (ala BBO ADVANCE), denies a spade ACE or KING
9 - 4♠ cue -bid
10 - 6C as partner will not hold AKxx Axx xx Kxxx since we play 14-16 NT. If you play 15-17 1NT, you might want to ask for KEYCARDS and when he shows three, then ask for trump queen/side kings (only one he can have on this cue-bid sequence is king of spades)

[FrancesHinden]

On the second hand I would bid 3H - 4H. A vul 3H bid is not to be sniffed at.

I assume if you consider that a down-the-middle 1H opening bid your convention card is filled in appropriately?

On the first hand I could join in and construct an auction to 6C. But the only thing that counts in bidding these slams is doing so when you can't see both hands. I agree with Mike that it's not obvious to get to 6C and if I did so I would expect a very good board. Playing matchpoints (you don't specify the form of scoring) I'm pretty certain I'd end in 5H. Playing IMPs I think (hope) I would get to 6C.