[Fluffy]

I presented this problem to my partner last week, he was opting for first option while I was opting for last, we at least agreed we needed to talk about it .

E - N
2♠-??

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[HeartA]

JTx is OK.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Jun 9 2005, 01:51 PM, said:

QTx, KTx a close second.

ditto

[whereagles]

HeartA, on Jun 9 2005, 07:08 PM, said:

JTx is OK.

Ditto.

[luke warm]

KTx at least.. i think at the 3 level the overcall should more closely resemble an opening bid

[joker_gib]

QTx at least (NV)

Alain

[Gerben42]

Queen at least.

[Flame]

Im surprise to see so many good players answering this question.
Imo there is no simple answer, it depends on the rest of your hand, and also on the vul.
what is your bid with
xx
AK
AKQ
XXXXXX

I would bid 3C

[mr1303]

I think the idea is that given the hand you've got there, what value of H do you need to bid 3C as opposed to pass. It isn't the quality of your suit that he's asking about.

So if your hand is

Kx
Qx
JTx
AJTxxx

would you overcall?

If not, change the J of diamonds to the Q, would you overcall now? Or the K? or A?

[Gerben42]

My bid with that would be: How is your aunt in Chicago?

[mr1303]

She died last Thursday.....

[Flame]

Got it now, i knew something wrong. I would go with the K/Q but not the J.
Im not sure its wrong to bid it with even less, its a matter of style and either style will work sometimes.

[Double !]

What does the partnership say partner needs to bid 3NT in response to your 3 clubs. The answer to what you need in diamonds should be somewhere in the answer to my question.

[Winstonm]

In this situation, the question I believe to answer is: what game am I trying to get to with a 3 club bid? Seems obvious that 3N is the spot I'm tying to find unless partner has a strong holding, unbalanced, with a club fit. But "normally", we're trying to find our way to 9 tricks.

If this is true, what is the minimum hand partner needs to be looking at to feel as if we might have some play for 9 tricks? xxx, Axxx, xxx, KQx or xxx, Kxxx, QJx, Kxx or maybe even xxx, Jxxx, KQx, KQx.

If this is a "reasonable" assumption of pard's minimum hands to expect a chance for game, and most of the time when I bid 3 clubs I show up with Kx, Qx, J10x, AJ10xxx, he will learn quickly that he needs to hold much better cards to move over 3C. Now we have a problem. How do I separate Kx, xxx, AQx, AJ10xxx from Kx, xxx, Kxx, AJ10xxx? And how does partner ever know? The less hand I have the more partner needs for us to make a game; the more he has the more inclined to reopen he will be.

For me, A10x is about the worst holding I would add to this hand to make it worth a 3 club bid; with that holding at least I have some (although slight) chance of making 3N against pard's worst holding of xxx, Kxx, QJxx, Kxx.

Of course, the disadvantage of this "style" is that pard has much more pressure to balance; you pays your money....

WinstonM

[Double !]

I agree with you winstonm. That was my point.
If we're looking for P to bid 3NT with Hxx in clubs and some outside cards or a key spade card, then we need quick tricks, not slower tricks to play 3NT safely.

Bon chance in 3NT if p has xx, Axxx, Qxx, KQx and bids 3S in resp to 3C.
With KTx of diamonds, y'all only have 8 tricks with spade lead. You lose the race. With A of diamonds you win, you have 9 tricks.

[han]

A10x is certainly enough in my opinion, J10x is too little. I think that this is a great question to talk about with your regular partner.

I think that you miss the boat if your only consideration for bidding is making games. This could easily be a partscore swing, you have excellent clubs an only 2 spades.

[Free]

QTx

[Winstonm]

Quote

I think that you miss the boat if your only consideration for bidding is making games.

The only consideration is to help partner make a reasonable decision; and if I pass with a weaker hand, pard is not barred from reopening.

It is true that occassionally you can miss a partscore. But if you partner doesn't have a clue as to what he shoudd bid over your 3 clubs, you have lost much more.

[Double !]

Winstonm, on Jun 12 2005, 10:56 AM, said:

Quote

I think that you miss the boat if your only consideration for bidding is making games.

The only consideration is to help partner make a reasonable decision; and if I pass with a weaker hand, pard is not barred from reopening.

It is true that occassionally you can miss a partscore. But if you partner doesn't have a clue as to what he shoudd bid over your 3 clubs, you have lost much more.

That's a big 10-4 !!!
agree with you
to say nothing of the fact that the sample hand was a 7-loser hand: 3-level overcall?

my boat is to try to have a sound foundation for shared partnership decision-making.