[mikeh]

phoenixmj, on 2020-February-11, 19:41, said:

I did open this hand 1NT and it proved to be a bad idea as we did have a heart suit fit, but partner did not have enough points to do puppet staymen which we play as a 3c bid over 1NT.

I am reading a somewhat LONG diatribe about 1NT openings and responses. I am not sure if I would have opened this 1NT before reading that diatribe. It talked about tenaces and that with tenaces you want to be receiving the lead, and the best way to have that happen is to open no trump. Similarly, a king doubleton, you want to receive the lead. Then there is the rebid issue - with a suit open you need a rebid. All those reasons caused me to open 1NT. It is reassuring that those reasons occurred in the answers here - perhaps I am following the right track.

The game we were playing in had about 30 percent Canadians, and they tend to play weak NT openings. So, they likely opened this 1H. In this case it worked well for them. So, about 30 percent of the people played hearts and the rest NT - which did not fare as well as hearts. So, I was curious if people who know a LOT more than me would have opened it 1NT - and I am seeing that many would. So, I guess it is just another situation where making the right bid does not necessarily work out.

Thanks for all of the responses. It definitely made for interesting reading.

Few Canadians play weak 1N opening bids. It was popular in the east, especially in Montreal, but it is very much a minority view these days, as far as I can tell. I have played a lot of Canadian team trials, and few of the top players, in my experience, use a weak 1N.

As for ‘making the right bid’ not working out: welcome to bridge😀. If technically correct bridge always prevailed, few would play the game. More importantly, one can never determine what the best call is for any hand without knowing the overall system. Any coherent system involves accepting sub-optimal results on some hands, based on the belief that overall the system delivers results superior to other methods.

[AL78]

phoenixmj, on 2020-February-11, 19:41, said:

I did open this hand 1NT and it proved to be a bad idea as we did have a heart suit fit, but partner did not have enough points to do puppet staymen which we play as a 3c bid over 1NT.

I am reading a somewhat LONG diatribe about 1NT openings and responses. I am not sure if I would have opened this 1NT before reading that diatribe. It talked about tenaces and that with tenaces you want to be receiving the lead, and the best way to have that happen is to open no trump. Similarly, a king doubleton, you want to receive the lead. Then there is the rebid issue - with a suit open you need a rebid. All those reasons caused me to open 1NT. It is reassuring that those reasons occurred in the answers here - perhaps I am following the right track.

The game we were playing in had about 30 percent Canadians, and they tend to play weak NT openings. So, they likely opened this 1H. In this case it worked well for them. So, about 30 percent of the people played hearts and the rest NT - which did not fare as well as hearts. So, I was curious if people who know a LOT more than me would have opened it 1NT - and I am seeing that many would. So, I guess it is just another situation where making the right bid does not necessarily work out.

Thanks for all of the responses. It definitely made for interesting reading.

Bridge is a game of probabilities, and making the theoretically most sound bid does not guarentee the best result. It doesn't mean the bid was wrong. It is worth noting when people advocate a bid in a situation with two or more options, and try to justify it by posting one or two deals where it works well, that doesn't tell you much, with almost all bids you can cherry-pick a deal where it works. What matters is how frequently it will work in the long term (hence where simulations can be useful as long as the initial conditions are specified correctly).

[801Dave]

I'd open 1NT. First, the heart suit is not so hot. Second, with the NT opening I have a rebid. That in itself tells partner the suit is likely less than stellar.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2020-February-12, 03:11, said:

Bridge is a game of probabilities, and making the theoretically most sound bid does not guarentee the best result. It doesn't mean the bid was wrong. It is worth noting when people advocate a bid in a situation with two or more options, and try to justify it by posting one or two deals where it works well, that doesn't tell you much, with almost all bids you can cherry-pick a deal where it works. What matters is how frequently it will work in the long term (hence where simulations can be useful as long as the initial conditions are specified correctly).

There's even more to this in that if all 5332s in range are opened 1N, you have inferences when 1N is NOT opened and these are the cases that are most difficult to quantify, as they don't relate to the hand that's actually in front of you.

[fromageGB]

The OP did not state what the scoring method is, and I think that it critical. Playing in matchpoints I will open 1H always, because missing the major part score can be awful if others are bidding it. Playing in IMPs I open 1NT - and this hand is OK for 12-14 NT (not really worth 15, is it?) or 15-17 NT.

[gordontd]

fromageGB, on 2020-February-13, 04:49, said:

Playing in IMPs I open 1NT - and this hand is OK for 12-14 NT (not really worth 15, is it?)

3 quick tricks, no jacks, a five-card suit. Doesn't look like a hand to downgrade to me.

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2020-February-13, 04:55, said:

3 quick tricks, no jacks, a five-card suit. Doesn't look like a hand to downgrade to me.

One 9, nothing else above a 6, way below average intemediates

[gordontd]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-February-13, 05:32, said:

One 9, nothing else above a 6, way below average intemediates

Since the features that make it a good hand apply especially to playing in a suit, and those you have identified are more relevant to NT contracts, it doesn't seem to me to argue for opening a weak NT rather than 1H.

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2020-February-13, 05:41, said:

Since the features that make it a good hand apply especially to playing in a suit, and those you have identified are more relevant to NT contracts, it doesn't seem to me to argue for opening a weak NT rather than 1H.

Opening 1N also makes it not go 1♥-(1♠)-P-(2♠)which you don't have a great hand for

[gordontd]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-February-13, 05:44, said:

Opening 1N also makes it not go 1♥-(1♠)-P-(2♠)which you don't have a great hand for

You can double. You have a worse hand for 1NT - (2♠) - P - (P) or similar. But somehow I think you will just carry on arguing the point so I'll bow out now.

[Cyberyeti]

gordontd, on 2020-February-13, 06:02, said:

You can double. You have a worse hand for 1NT - (2♠) - P - (P) or similar. But somehow I think you will just carry on arguing the point so I'll bow out now.

Yes but there are way more hands prepared to bid 1♠ over 1♥ than 2♠ over 1N, the preemptive effect of 1N is well established, there are lots of hands where 1N is = or -1 and so is 2♠ so whoever bids wins. My partner always has a 3244 5-6 count if I double and a 3235 or 3226 if I don't.