[silvr bull]

13 top tricks on any lead except a H. How can we bid it?

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We got to 6NT. Our problem was that East did not know West has the HK, and West did not know East has solid Hs.

Fun play problem too. 13 top tricks on any lead except a H, so N led a H, of course. How do you set up the squeeze for the 13th trick?

[Lovera]

It not had to be difficult to get if E query after showing own good suit (1♥ - 2♠ by W, 3♥-4♥). After 4NT(=RKB14) E knows partner has King of trump, 19/+ points and almost a King and a Queen more. 5♠ query for K/Q-5NT(=yes ♠K), 6♣ query for King (it not is available 5NT)-6♦ shows ♦ K, 6♠ query about Queen now and than 7♦ shows the two Queens (♦+♠) allowing to get in 7NT.

[Cyberyeti]

1♥-1♠
2♦-3♣
4♥-4♠(keycard)
5♥-5N(anything else)
6♥(no)-7♥

which is cold even on a heart lead. It's a tough choice of which grand to bid at the end, it's possible partner has J10 AQ109xx AJ10x x in which case 7N is cold and 7♥ isn't

[lamford]

I think you can bid 1H-1S-3H with such good hearts. Now RKCB should get the job done. And at teams you should play 7H. Or as Cyberyeti suggests too.

You have to guess the play. If South is guarding spades and North diamonds, you have to cash the heart, cash the top spades, overtake the second diamond and play the double squeeze. If North is guarding both spades and diamonds, you have to cash the ace of clubs before overtaking the second diamond and play a simple squeeze on him. If South is guarding diamonds and North is guarding spades, then a heart lead is the only one to beat you and there is no winning line. It looks normal to play the double squeeze as the pointed suit menaces are likely to be split.

[Cyberyeti]

lamford, on 2017-March-15, 10:29, said:

I think you can bid 1H-1S-3H with such good hearts. Now RKCB should get the job done.

You can, but is 4♦ natural over that ? partner will be 5-5 in the pointies if you do that.

[Lovera]

About squeeze position a balanced with double menace in club suit.

[Lovera]

Because the opening lead is on heart N has not KQJ in club suit.

[lamford]

Lovera, on 2017-March-15, 10:32, said:

About squeeze position a balanced with double menace in club suit.

Right. I think it is right to play it as a double squeeze but if North guards spades and South guards diamonds and both guard clubs you cannot make it. For example, South xx xxx Jxxx KJxx. You need either a simple squeeze or a positional double squeeze.

[Lovera]

lamford, on 2017-March-15, 11:55, said:

Right. I think it is right to play it as a double squeeze but if North guards spades and South guards diamonds and both guard clubs you cannot make it. For example, South xx xxx Jxxx KJxx. You need either a simple squeeze or a positional double squeeze.

When a double squeeze works the only option available is, with unilaterals divided, in favourable position that is to say "type R".

[lamford]

Lovera, on 2017-March-15, 12:12, said:

When a double squeeze works the only option available is, with unilaterals divided, in favourable position that is to say "type R".

The double squeeze will operate when South is Jxxx xx xxx KQxx for example, but when South is xx xxx xxx KQxxx you have to play the diamond-spade squeeze against North and cash the ace of clubs early. I don't think you can play for both at the same time.

[Lovera]

lamford, on 2017-March-15, 15:50, said:

The double squeeze will operate when South is Jxxx xx xxx KQxx for example, but when South is xx xxx xxx KQxxx you have to play the diamond-spade squeeze against North and cash the ace of clubs early. I don't think you can play for both at the same time.

I think i've seen another ending (cashing ♣ A). Do you agree ?

[silvr bull]

At the table, I jumped the West hand to 2S, and partner reasonably bid 3D. That start made it impossible for us to bid higher than 6NT. After the hand, I commented that maybe it would have been better to RKC directly over the 1H bid. The plan would be to ignore the S suit and go directly to 6NT, but with an added bonus along the way. By asking again, I could confirm that we have all 5 key cards, just in case the HK mattered to East. On this hand, East would then have no problem correcting 6NT to 7H.

After the H lead, I decided to set up a simple squeeze against either opp hand holding long S and the DJ, but with the added bonus possibility that S might hold all the high Cs (or N could have a stiff honor). So I cashed the CA before overtaking the DQ to run the Hs. Then the squeeze was automatic until I came down to SAKQx in dummy, and learned that the opps S were 3=3. LOL

Thanks for the replies.

[johnu]

I would play for a spade-diamond automatic squeeze, cashing ♣A, ♠A before 2 diamonds and running rest of hearts. If spades aren't 3-3, this is a little less than 50% since the short spade hand is more likely to have ♦J

Double squeeze needs South to guard spades (50%) and North to guard diamonds (50%) so about 25%+

[Lovera]

johnu, on 2017-March-16, 00:47, said:

I would play for a spade-diamond automatic squeeze, cashing ♣A, ♠A before 2 diamonds and running rest of hearts. If spades aren't 3-3, this is a little less than 50% since the short spade hand is more likely to have ♦J

Double squeeze needs South to guard spades (50%) and North to guard diamonds (50%) so about 25%+

It is not important if top honors in double menace are divided or not and it(=double) meaning undeterminated location.

[Lovera]

Perhaps can be considered the guard squeeze derived by balanced with J and 10 separated in spade that allows possibilities on discarting. Five rounds of heart suit, in dummy (little diamond to Q), the two Aces and anew in E playing last heart. If an honor in spade falls down impasse otherwise S remain squeezed in ♦ and ♠ and if was discarted three clubs the 10 is idle card.

[nullve]

silvr bull, on 2017-March-15, 00:49, said:

13 top tricks on any lead except a H. How can we bid it?

---

We got to 6NT. Our problem was that East did not know West has the HK, and West did not know East has solid Hs.

Fun play problem too. 13 top tricks on any lead except a H, so N led a H, of course. How do you set up the squeeze for the 13th trick?

Bidding:

Could start either

1♥-1♠
2♦-3♣
3♥,

because Opener was prepared to rebid 3♥ (GF) over 1♥-1♠; 2♦-2N,

1♥-1♠
2♥-3♣
3♦,

with 3♦ showing a real suit, or

1♥-1♠
2♥-3♣
3♥/3N,

because 3♦ would have been 4SF (used to be standard in Norway in positions like this). But then it's getting difficult.

Play:

On a heart lead, play 5 (but not 6) rounds of hearts first, then decide which squeeze to play for. (E.g. if an opponent fails to discard a spade, that would at least be a hint that he has 4+ spades, since discarding from any 3-card spade holding can't cost anything double dummy.)

[wanoff]

lamford, on 2017-March-15, 11:55, said:

Right. I think it is right to play it as a double squeeze but if North guards spades and South guards diamonds and both guard clubs you cannot make it. For example, South xx xxx Jxxx KJxx. You need either a simple squeeze or a positional double squeeze.

Play the double squeeze if you really like double squeezes, but there are 2 simple squeezes...........

[Lovera]

silvr bull, on 2017-March-15, 23:38, said:

At the table, I jumped the West hand to 2S, and partner reasonably bid 3D. That start made it impossible for us to bid higher than 6NT. After the hand, I commented that maybe it would have been better to RKC directly over the 1H bid. The plan would be to ignore the S suit and go directly to 6NT, but with an added bonus along the way. By asking again, I could confirm that we have all 5 key cards, just in case the HK mattered to East. On this hand, East would then have no problem correcting 6NT to 7H.

After the H lead, I decided to set up a simple squeeze against either opp hand holding long S and the DJ, but with the added bonus possibility that S might hold all the high Cs (or N could have a stiff honor). So I cashed the CA before overtaking the DQ to run the Hs. Then the squeeze was automatic until I came down to SAKQx in dummy, and learned that the opps S were 3=3. LOL

Thanks for the replies.

Playing vs South that retains all controlls you can cash the whole heart suit discarting a diamond, retourning in dummy in spade and cashing the four top honors realizing a triple repeat automatic squeeze ( transfert card in diamond).

[IGoHomeNow]

Is this a 2S bid? The spades are only 5 in length and there is another suit. I want 2S here to say I have slam interest or better with good, but not necessarily great spades. If that is consistent with what pard can expect, I will bid it.

Over 2S, I think 3H is correct. While diamonds could matter, this heart suit needs to be emphasized. Now what? RKC for hearts Pard shows 2 with the Q. Now ask for Kings and partner will show nothing. Now I bid 6NT.

Partner at that point might realize that I could easily have the singleton KH. If he sees this, he can realize the value of the JH and could try 7NT. Strangely.....If I bid 6H, partner will likely figure me for Kx in hearts, which means I've already counted the hearts for 6 winners and the Jh will look nice, but it won't really look like the key to the hand. i.e. Kx opposite AQxxxx rates to win 6 ricks but K opposite AQxxxx looks more like 5 tricks. So having the JH means the hearts are solid opposite Kx and opposite K. Worse yet, over 6H, partner might go to 7H with the same hand with Kc instead of the Jh

So even though 6H is probably a bit safer, it really takes a 6N bid to get partner to realize that there are 13 tricks.

[Lovera]

IGoHomeNow, on 2017-March-16, 17:49, said:

Is this a 2S bid? The spades are only 5 in length and there is another suit. I want 2S here to say I have slam interest or better with good, but not necessarily great spades. If that is consistent with what pard can expect, I will bid it.

Over 2S, I think 3H is correct. While diamonds could matter, this heart suit needs to be emphasized. Now what? RKC for hearts Pard shows 2 with the Q. Now ask for Kings and partner will show nothing. Now I bid 6NT.

Partner at that point might realize that I could easily have the singleton KH. If he sees this, he can realize the value of the JH and could try 7NT. Strangely.....If I bid 6H, partner will likely figure me for Kx in hearts, which means I've already counted the hearts for 6 winners and the Jh will look nice, but it won't really look like the key to the hand. i.e. Kx opposite AQxxxx rates to win 6 ricks but K opposite AQxxxx looks more like 5 tricks. So having the JH means the hearts are solid opposite Kx and opposite K. Worse yet, over 6H, partner might go to 7H with the same hand with Kc instead of the Jh

So even though 6H is probably a bit safer, it really takes a 6N bid to get partner to realize that there are 13 tricks.

Let me say it:anytime people say that we are talking "seeing all cards" that is the truth..but it not is wrong to do because helps to solve bidding problem . Now you develop your thinking that, seems to me, a little complex requering partner to act subsequently in bidding. Is it possible at the table ? I think that probably bidding should have been more simply saving slam resulting. It to say that this one perhaps is not the right way to get to 7NT. About "Now ask for Kings and partner show nothing" i want to say that i do not agree because in this situation where partner has a singleton(=splinter) that can not have been showed previously you can consider the possibility to bid 6♣ instead meaning King or singleton.