[MrAce]

Hi all. I have a question. What happens when declarer makes a claim saying "I am not taking any finesse" and nothing else after cashing 1 round of trump and everyone following ?

Defense has 2 more trumps.( originally 1-3 split) If declarer clears trumps he is down. Is he required to clear trumps? The hand came in Turkish Clubs Championship again. EW and declarer are World Class players,

---

Lead ♠T

Declarer discards a ♦ from dummy, cashes ♥ Q and claims saying "I do not take any finesse"

TD decides 7♥ -1

Only way to go down is cashing 3 rounds of hearts.

Did TD make correct ruling?

Declarer says, after the contest to claim, "even if I cash 2nd ♥ and see W is out, that would stop me from cashing 3rd ♥.
But he did not mention this when he claimed.

[pran]

MrAce, on 2016-October-17, 06:37, said:

Hi all. I have a question. What happens when declarer makes a claim saying "I am not taking any finesse" and nothing else after cashing 1 round of trump and everyone following ?

Defense has 2 more trumps.( originally 1-3 split) If declarer clears trumps he is down. Is he required to clear trumps? The hand came in Turkish Clubs Championship again. EW and declarer are World Class players,

---

Lead ♠T

Declarer discards a ♦ from dummy, cashes ♥ Q and claims saying "I do not take any finesse"

TD decides 7♥ -1

Only way to go down is cashing 3 rounds of hearts.

Did TD make correct ruling?

Declarer says, after the contest to claim, "even if I cash 2nd ♥ and see W is out, that would stop me from cashing 3rd ♥.
But he did not mention this when he claimed.

I agree with TD. The claimer did not explicitly mention the cross-ruff needed to get rid of his two diamond losers so his claim statement is incomplete and insufficient.

[VixTD]

Yes, the TD made a correct ruling. I don't see how the claim statement helps us understand South's intended line of play. They seem to be expecting the director to play the hand for them.

[shyams]

Doesn't the class of player matter?

If World Class, then claim should be allowed to stand.

[broze]

I think down one no matter what class of player. TDs should not be enouraging this lazy claiming.

[barmar]

The claim statement makes no sense. There aren't any finesses to be taken.

[pran]

shyams, on 2016-October-17, 07:57, said:

Doesn't the class of player matter?

If World Class, then claim should be allowed to stand.

Sure not here.
A weak player will easily overlook the need to ruff two diamonds and a strong player should know the need to claim properly.

barmar, on 2016-October-17, 08:07, said:

The claim statement makes no sense. There aren't any finesses to be taken.

Yes, there was one: The spade finesse on the opening lead

[gordontd]

barmar, on 2016-October-17, 08:07, said:

The claim statement makes no sense. There aren't any finesses to be taken.

Indeed. I think the statement and the timing of it suggests that the player was just checking that the trumps were not 4-0 and so would cash two more rounds of trumps if necessary. If he needed to change lines if the trumps weren't 2-2 then he should have cashed one more round before claiming.

[MrAce]

barmar, on 2016-October-17, 08:07, said:

The claim statement makes no sense. There aren't any finesses to be taken.

Actually he makes no statement at all. None. It is my bad that I wrote it the way it is.
After claim is contested, he says "I am not taking any finesse"

[billw55]

There is reason for the first two words of the phrase "draw trumps and claim".

[mycroft]

so "not drawing trumps and claim" would be accepted here? :-)

[blackshoe]

he didn't state a line of play. He doesn't get to state one when the director is called. If there is any normal line of play that fails, the ruling goes against the claimer. In this case there is such a line.

[barmar]

MrAce, on 2016-October-17, 09:05, said:

Actually he makes no statement at all. None. It is my bad that I wrote it the way it is.
After claim is contested, he says "I am not taking any finesse"

Still makes no sense. What finesse isn't he taking? Did he mean that he can't take any finesse because there aren't any?

[MrAce]

barmar, on 2016-October-18, 08:59, said:

Still makes no sense. What finesse isn't he taking? Did he mean that he can't take any finesse because there aren't any?

I have no idea why he said what he said, Barry. I just wanted to make sure that is not what he said when he claimed.

Another question. Someone in BW said something like "No statement = No claim"
Is this true?
When someone opens his hand without saying a word should we not treat this as claim?

[barmar]

MrAce, on 2016-October-18, 09:04, said:

Another question. Someone in BW said something like "No statement = No claim"
Is this true?
When someone opens his hand without saying a word should we not treat this as claim?

Of course we should, it says so in 68A:

Quote

A contestant also claims when he suggests that play be curtailed, or when he shows his cards (unless he demonstrably did not intend to claim ...).

But if you claim without a statement, the line has to be so obvious that there's no need. Generally this means all top tricks with no communication problems, a clear cross ruff, or other simple lines.

I don't think this particular claim fits that requirement. It's not obvious whether he's starting a cross-ruff immediately or he's going to draw more trumps first.