[Kaitlyn S]

Hi - these problems should be very easy for experienced players but a novice needs to think about the right things in an auction. If you are a beginner and get them wrong, don't feel too bad as long as you understand the rationale for the answers. I'll provide the answers later but I'll put a hint as a spoiler. Try to solve the problem without the spoiler. Also, let me know if you would be interested in seeing more of these from time to time.

Assume you are playing Standard American (a natural system with 15-17 1NT openings), IMPS, and nobody is vulnerable.

Some background: When you open the bidding, the next player overcalls, and partner passes, he is likely to not have had enough points to respond, but it is possible that he holds a hand with no good bid.

It is dangerous to reopen the bidding with length in the overcaller's suit and a minimum hand. Let's look at an auction:

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Even not vulneraable, this is not the time to bid 1NT. With 6 points, partner could have raised diamonds or made a negative double. While partner could have clubs and not enough to bid 2C, it is more likely that partner is weak. So what, you say, it's only 50 a trick? Well, let's say partner has 3 points. The opponents have 23 points divided somehow. Since East couldn't bid, it's likely that West has a very good overcall and East has a misfitting hand with 7 or 8 points. You can almost predict what will happen when you bid 1NT. West might show his great overcall by doubling, and East might leave it in with a decent hand for his earlier pass.

Bidding 1NT here should not show a hand that would have rebid 1NT, but a hand that would have jump rebid 2NT. Thus, a 1NT rebid opposite a partner that passed tends to show a balanced hand with 18-19 points. While 2NT might be safe opposite a partner that responds, 1NT is quite high enough for an 18 point opening hand opposite possibly nothing.

What does the responder do? Opposite most descriptive notrump bids, responder is the captain. Ask yourself how high you want to be and if there should be a trump suit. Put on your captain's hat and try these problems. Remember that partner is showing a balanced hand with 18-19 points.

1.

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Spoiler

How many tricks will your hand provide in notrump? How many tricks might your hand provide in a trump suit?

2.

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Spoiler

Do you have the strength for game? If so, which one?

3.

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Spoiler

In what reasonable contract would your hand provide tricks?

4.

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Spoiler

Do you have the strength for game?

[bravejason]

My first instinct for each hand was pass because I kept thinking of the 1NT re-bid as weak.

1. 2C. I'm not sure that the hand will provide any more tricks at a suit than at no trump, but I suspect partner will be happier in clubs than in no trump - I know I would be.

2. At the table, I wonder if I might bid 2NT. Here, with a chance to think on it for a while, I bid 3NT. I'm expecting the clubs to be a source of tricks.

3. At the table, I probably pass. Here, having a chance to ponder it for a while, I bid 2D.

4. Pass. I don't see game, so don't give partner an opportunity to bid it.

[Zelandakh]

 bravejason, on 2016-October-17, 10:32, said:

2. At the table, I wonder if I might bid 2NT. Here, with a chance to think on it for a while, I bid 3NT. I'm expecting the clubs to be a source of tricks.

There is another possibility here that you might not have considered. Whether you should or not depends to some extent on whether the 1NT rebid shows, as given in the OP; just a hand that would have rebid 2NT over a 1 over 1 response or also has some minimum standards for the spade suit.

 bravejason, on 2016-October-17, 10:32, said:

4. Pass. I don't see game, so don't give partner an opportunity to bid it.

Could you see your way to game if partner opened a light 2NT showing 19+-20hcp? Can you think of a way of finding out whether partner is in the 18-19 range or has 19-20?

[Kaitlyn S]

Answers: (Material considered advanced (and confusing) for some novices is in blue.)
1.

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Hint: How many tricks will your hand provide in notrump? How many tricks might your hand provide in a trump suit?
Unless partner has very good clubs plus a small one to run your suit, this hand will be worthless in notrump. With clubs as trump, your hand will take some club tricks, and will also have several trump entries to be able to lead from your hand to finesse if needed. Bid 2C.

A couple of clarifications:

(a) 2C is a new suit by responder! Won't partner bid again?
Partner's 1NT bid made you the captain. In most auctions where somebody bids notrump, new suits by responder aren't forcing, but suggesting a place to play. (If you don't play Transfers, and partner opens 1NT and you bid 2S, it is weak and to play. If it weren't for the Stayman convention, 2C would have the same meaning.)

Partner's bid was so descriptive that you should have a good idea of the best place to play. Your 2C bid simply says that this is the best place to play, and partner should respect that decision.

(b) Won't partner think 2C is Stayman?
Stayman is over opening notrump bids (2C-2D-2NT is treated as an opening notrump bid), and by agreement, directly over notrump overcalls. Some very advanced partnerships might agree to use Stayman in other spots, but do not assume Stayman over a rebid.

Also, if your long suit was hearts, you would just bid 2H. Transfers do not apply over rebids either [except by partnership agreement in very advanced partnerships.] In fact, if partner thinks 2D is a transfer to hearts, you won't be able to make the correct call on problem 3 where you want to play 2D.

2.

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Hint: Do you have the strength for game? If so, which one?

Answer: You have about 8 points (I'm counting a point for the good five-card suit) and partner has 18-19. You have the points for game and you have no major suit fit, and likely not enough strength to make 5C. Bid 3NT.

 bravejason, on 2016-October-17, 10:32, said:

My first instinct for each hand was pass because I kept thinking of the 1NT re-bid as weak.

Unfortunately your partners may think the same thing. However, on BBO you will be playing with some strong players and I would hope most of them would know what 1NT shows. Also, I don't think you'll be a novice very long (by my own definition, you've already passed that designation.)

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-18, 09:07, said:

There is another possibility here that you might not have considered. Whether you should or not depends to some extent on whether the 1NT rebid shows, as given in the OP; just a hand that would have rebid 2NT over a 1 over 1 response or also has some minimum standards for the spade suit.

Since this is in the N/B forum and intended for novices, I am quite happy with an answer that gets to game with 26 points. [I believe that Zelandakh is saying that while you have 26-27 points, if partner has spades single stopped, you are in danger of losing four spade tricks and another trick in 3NT before you take nine tricks. As the meaning of a jump to 3C is nebulous, I have to think that Zelandakh is suggesting that this hand make a cue bid of 2S to say "We have enough points for game, but I am worried about losing too many tricks, so please avoid notrump unless you have two potential spade stoppers or reason to believe we can take 9 tricks as soon as we get in. While I would expect this message to be received by a top player, I would not try this at home - I wouldn't be surprised if you get to play 2S! There is also the problem of sorting out the trump suit when partner shies away from notrump; if partner has a doubleton club, your final 5-2 may not be any better than 3NT; and even when partner is 3-3-4-3, it's hard to stop in 3C without firm agreements. As for an immediate jump to 3C to show this hand, I think that undiscussed, even experts will misunderstand, some will think 3C is forcing while others will think it's invitational.]

3.

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Hint: In what reasonable contract would your hand provide tricks?

Answer: Unlike in problem 1, your hand has some potential for a trick in notrump with the fourth diamond. However, 1NT is no bargain with the opponents leading their long spades and your zero points opposite partner's 18-19. Your diamonds will do much more good if they are trump. First, they will stop the run of the opponents' spades. Second, even though West may be overruffing your spade ruffs, in many cases, he will be trumping with a trump trick he was entitled to, meaning that your partner gained a trick by trumping a spade loser in your hand.

You will have an eight card diamond fit unless partner is precisely 4-4-3-2. I suggest you bid 2D. Again, since partner has made a very descriptive bid, our 2D bid just places the contract and does not show any values. Partner should know you don't have values; you could have raised to 2D right over the 1S overcall with six points and four diamonds.

4.

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Hint: Do you have the strength for game?

Partner has 18-19 points; you have 6. We try not to bid game when we have at most 25 points and could have less. Notrump looks like the best spot here, and the best way to play a partscore in notrump is to pass.

Think of it this way: without the overcall, you would have responded 1NT. Partner would have invited with 2NT showing 18-19 balanced. Would you bid game? Of course not, you can't be any weaker for your earlier bidding and sometimes an invitation should be declined.

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-18, 09:07, said:

Could you see your way to game if partner opened a light 2NT showing 19+-20hcp? Can you think of a way of finding out whether partner is in the 18-19 range or has 19-20?

[I think that if partner has a balanced 20 they should have opened 2NT. Note that if you invite with 2NT and partner passes, you are playing 2NT instead of 1NT and the opponents are leading their long spade suit. If partner has spades single stopped, it wouldn't be unusual to see the opponents win four spades and two other tricks; after all, you don't have a great source or tricks here.]



NOTE: These "novice" problem threads may be moving to the Intermediate/Advanced forum as they are likely more appropriate for intermediate players than for true novices. If you have any input on this, let me know.

[neilkaz]

I think this series of problems is fine for the level of N/B we have here and should stay in this forum. Thx .. neilkaz ..

[NickRW]

 Kaitlyn S, on 2016-October-18, 10:29, said:

NOTE: These "novice" problem threads may be moving to the Intermediate/Advanced forum as they are likely
more appropriate for intermediate players than for true novices. If you have any input on this, let me know.

I have mixed feelings:

I think these problems are OK for the N/B forum. And by keeping them here you tend to get comments from relatively new players and from relatively expert (or at least experienced) players who are keen to be helpful rather than muddy the debate too much.

On the other hand, rightly or wrongly, not many people think of themselves as N/B and you'll probably hit a larger audience in the I/A forum - and a lot of the people there would benefit from considering problems such as these.

Part of the problem is the very woolly definition of "intermediate" which covers the majority of players from those with a year or so's experience, but little knowledge up to some quite reasonable players by most people's standards and who are relatively well read on the subject.

Nick

[NickRW]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-18, 09:07, said:

Could you see your way to game if partner opened a light 2NT showing 19+-20hcp? Can you think of a way of finding out whether partner is in the 18-19 range or has 19-20?

 Kaitlyn S, on 2016-October-18, 10:29, said:

[I think that if partner has a balanced 20 they should have opened 2NT. Note that if you invite with 2NT and partner passes, you are playing 2NT instead of 1NT and the opponents are leading their long spade suit. If partner has spades single stopped, it wouldn't be unusual to see the opponents win four spades and two other tricks; after all, you don't have a great source or tricks here.]

FWIW and IMO it is quite borderline. In real life it depends a bit on what partner might include in their 1NT opener - some people are going to have upgraded some 17 counts as being too good for a 1NT opener and are going to want to include such hands in the re-opening 1NT call. Some expect their "20-22" 2NT openers to not include flawed 20 counts. Rightly or wrongly, players playing a weak NT are particularly going to be reluctant to pass 17 counts in the pass out seat.

Personally, it being IMP scoring with alluring game bonuses and had I chosen to invite and partner went down in 2 or 3NT and then decided to moan at me - well - I'd be putting a black mark in my book about that partner.

[Zelandakh]

It is more than that Nick. In general, beginners tend to be cautious in their bidding and are often happy with 1NT+2 or 2NT+1 on the basis that they did not go down and therefore "won" the hand. The modern trend is to bid game with a combined 24-26 absent contra-indications, so inviting with 24-25 seems to me to be more than reasonable. Similarly, I would expect an invite over a 1NT response to be 17-18 rather than 18-19. 19 should simply force to game and it is good practice to encourage beginners to be bold in their game bidding early so as not to get into bad habits.

[NickRW]

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-19, 05:16, said:

It is more than that Nick...

Aye. I was agreeing with you that I'd invite too, if only somewhat reluctantly. That 6 count in example 4 is, well - it has no flaws per se, but the lack of aces and tens and the unappealing 4333 shape makes me feel it is a pretty useless 6. I'm not going to attempt a sim, particularly because of the question marks over exactly what one might reasonably expect over the 1NT re-opener, but I don't see inviting scoring much better than a quiet pass. And if the scoring were MPs, passing would have more to recommend it (I think). On the other hand, give me the 10 of hearts or clubs, I'd be a happier camper with an invite.

[Kaitlyn S]

My entire response is in blue (advanced material for some novices) because this is really a theoretical discussion.

 NickRW, on 2016-October-19, 04:39, said:

FWIW and IMO it is quite borderline. In real life it depends a bit on what partner might include in their 1NT opener - some people are going to have upgraded some 17 counts as being too good for a 1NT opener and are going to want to include such hands in the re-opening 1NT call. Some expect their "20-22" 2NT openers to not include flawed 20 counts.

The confusion is somewhat my fault. I should have stated 20-21 2NT openers in my conditions of contest. I realize that some people might play 21-22 or 20+-22 so their 1NT rebid might have a bad 20 despite the fact that I explicitly defined it as 18-19.

 NickRW, on 2016-October-19, 04:39, said:

Rightly or wrongly, players playing a weak NT are particularly going to be reluctant to pass 17 counts in the pass out seat.

The described system is a strong notrump system. Some players do play a weak notrump, and I am aware that some of my text may not be 100% correct for them. (Certainly my set of problems where partner rebid 1NT was totally useless to them! I hope they realize that! Unfortunately, many probably didn't realize I wasn't talking to them and I have given them the wrong impression - depending on what they know, either the impression that a 1NT rebid shows the same thing their weak NT shows (which is certainly not true!) or the impression that I am clueless (which I hope isn't true.)

 NickRW, on 2016-October-19, 04:39, said:

Personally, it being IMP scoring with alluring game bonuses and had I chosen to invite and partner went down in 2 or 3NT and then decided to moan at me - well - I'd be putting a black mark in my book about that partner.

Again, the conditions of contest. The game bonus should only be alluring if you are vulnerable where the IMP odds are 10 to 6. I stated nobody vulnerable which makes the IMP odds 6 to 5 (assuming you are only down one and not doubled when you go down) so you should be bidding about 45% games.

Forgetting about the 18 counts for a minute, if you bid 3NT with a balanced 19 opposite a 3-3-3-4 6 count, even with the club 10 or heart 10 against my old partner and me, you would go down almost all the time. While we weren't particularly good defenders for the area we played in, we did set most of the contracts that should be set, and so did most of the other pairs in Flight A in our area. This push to bid 25 point games (counting length) is misguided in my experience.

However, in my recent return to BBO I have noticed that much of the defense perpetrated by advanced players and "experts" is not good enough to be considered bad defense, so maybe there is much incentive to bid a 25 point game. Especially for Zelandakh who probably plays his cards OK and is going to be playing with a partner of his choice against two randoms in the Main Bridge Club, I can see where being very aggressive in bidding games would be rewarded.

And I somewhat agree, a black mark is deserved by any partner that moans about your bid for any reason.

 Zelandakh, on 2016-October-19, 05:16, said:

It is more than that Nick. In general, beginners tend to be cautious in their bidding and are often happy with 1NT+2 or 2NT+1 on the basis that they did not go down and therefore "won" the hand. The modern trend is to bid game with a combined 24-26 absent contra-indications, so inviting with 24-25 seems to me to be more than reasonable. Similarly, I would expect an invite over a 1NT response to be 17-18 rather than 18-19. 19 should simply force to game and it is good practice to encourage beginners to be bold in their game bidding early so as not to get into bad habits.

You may notice the 1NT+2 and 2NT+1 results but beginners don't usually take nine tricks on two flat hands with 24 or 25 points, even if you or I would sometimes. Also, due to lack of experience, there are many hands on which you or I would see the route to nine tricks but they won't take them.

If they are playing here, they are probably playing IMPs and half the time they are vulnerable and should be bidding game more aggressively, but many will not notice the difference so I can't totally downplay the advice to bid games more often. However, I feel strongly that anybody who thinks that bidding games with 24 points and two balanced hands is not playing in strong enough competition, because if you are being rewarded for doing that, your declarer play is meeting defense that is of a much weaker standard. I personally think that bidding all 25's is too aggressive but I may be biased in playing a lot in an area where the defense was particularly strong.

We teach our beginners to raise a 1H response to 4H on 19, putting them in a 25-point game. However, we don't do that because we particularly want to be in a 25-point game, but because the range of the opening bid is so wide, that to split it up between 2H, 3H, and 4H, it seems more correct to put 19 in the 4H range than the 3H range where responder will pass with 7. We just don't have the room to differentiate.

However, when the auction goes 1D-1NT, raising to 3NT on a 3-3-4-3 19-count seems too aggressive. First, the opponents have an advantage knowing that the responder doesn't have the majors so the leader is warned off from leading diamonds or clubs, and will likely get the defense off to a good start. With the defenders almost knowing declarer's hand from the start, especially if declarer wins an honor early, the defense will frequently be almost double dummy, even for players that aren't that strong, since the defenders can almost see where declarer needs to get tricks from. It wouldn't surprise me if game made less than half the time even when responder had a 3-3-3-4 7-count.

You say would would raise to 2NT on 17-18 but on most 17's they would have already opened 1NT. An unbalanced 17 that wants to raise is more likely to have a source of tricks and will play more like 18 anyway.

If you play a weak notrump, you might have to raise on a balanced 17; and now your 2NT range is too wide if it includes 19 so I can see the merit in raising to game on 19 - but it's not because I want to be in game on 19 opposite 6; it's because my system almost forces me to raise to game on 19 to avoid an untenable range for the raise to 2NT. My entire above discussion assumed a 15-17 1NT opening and 20-21 2NT opening range.

[NickRW]

 Kaitlyn S, on 2016-October-19, 08:47, said:

My entire response is in blue...

Sorry Kaitlyn. Zel and I have been "muddying the water".

[Kaitlyn S]

 NickRW, on 2016-October-19, 09:03, said:

Sorry Kaitlyn. Zel and I have been "muddying the water".

No need to be sorry. I got 3/4 way through my response and realized that I was likely giving bad advice to weak notrump players and need to be careful about that in the future - would have never occurred to me without you & Zel's posts.