[billw55]

West hand is a pretty thin overcall, not sure I would do it at IMPs, but at least the suit is good. Yes, I also bid 5♥ at matchpoints, although it is closer.

No matter though, this is a situation where the more we go down, the more they make, so the dive keeps working thanks to the colors. Even if they get the full 800, it's peanuts to 1370. In truth, when your teammates reach the wrong contract and go minus when they have slam, it is hard to win the board.

Also as south I would open 1♣, reversing next. North's 5♦ is odd as well, there are good alternatives that don't blow so much space, x and 2♥ come to mind.

[ggwhiz]

ahydra, on 2016-October-07, 06:09, said:

Thanks all. Do I win a prize for having a 14-0 unanimous poll?

Here's the full hand - given the NS hands you might wonder if I posted the correct hand, but I assure you I've got it right:

---

This went for 500 after a misdefence

Do the 5H bidders also make the same choice at matchpoints?

ahydra

No surprise that a player that bid this like north would drop a trick on defence (A♠ lead?) and if you could throw them in a couple more times you might get out for down 1

Yes I bid it at matchpoints. Playing your rho to be bonkers is a mugs game and thems the breaks.

[kenberg]

Interesting hand, illustrating my general view that bridge is less predictable than we think. I had originally voted for pass. I was not that worried about 5H going down too much, I was worried about them bidding and making 6D. But then I deleted my vote thinking that if they can make 6 my pass is not going to stop them anyway. Then I decided to just read the comments and skip voting. [Note: I don't mind all that much being in the extreme minority, sometimes I take pride in it.] So here we are. 5H could have been set 800 but wasn't, they could have made 6D but didn't bid it, and at the other table they were in 3NTgoing down. As you say, "Ah well"

[ahydra]

ggwhiz, on 2016-October-07, 07:18, said:

No surprise that a player that bid this like north would drop a trick on defence (A♠ lead?)

Not quite - it went diamond, ♣AK, spade to the J and then North played the ♠A crashing the K. I think that technically counts as South's fault, unless he was trying to deceive declarer with a putative ♠AQ?

ahydra

[Phil]

Interesting 5♦ call. Maybe they don't play negative doubles.

[Tramticket]

Well I forgot to actually vote. But it seems that one of my Maybe's applied - the opps took away their own bidding space and missed their slam!

Having said that, I have to admit that I am now with the others and 5♥ looks right. I think I must have replied too quickly yesterday

[aawk]

Why did north bid 5d ? The only reason should be take-out with long ♦ and short in ♥ not a lot of points based on the LAW.

Because partners overcall is limited to a maximum 17 HCP (bad 16-17 HCP not suited for a info double with a strong suit) slam in ♥ is not likely and 5h looks like the best option.

5h is the right bid why did we loose so much IMPs. Well let me be blunt the overcall of 1♥ in IMP play is bad bridge so if partner is not willing to chance is style of overcalls i get a new partner. If i was south i would learn my partner the negative double and the LAW his bid of 5♦ shows he doesn't play either.

So i presume this board was played in a session just for fun and would not care about any result and order my partner to get a round of drinks, east and south deserve it to forget the way this board was bid by west and north.

[Caitlynne]

5H and it seems pretty clear.

The only time this is likely to be wrong is if we are beating 5D.

Other undesirable scenarios which have been suggested are silly. To wit:

1. "Maybe they are in the wrong game and have missed 3NT."
Unlikely. Partner is a strong favorite to have the Ace of hearts.

2. "Maybe they miss their slam."
Unlikely. Since 5D is preemptive in nature (unless the player is a beginner inasmuch with a strong hand a cue bid or another conventional raise is automatic), opener would have to have a huge hand for this to be the case. That is unlikely because partner has a weak heart suit which suggests that partner is not on a light overcall; furthermore, the preemptive 5D bid has to have some kind of values to be made at this vulnerability.

"Maybe they play in the wrong slam."
The chance of this is virtually zero if all the opponent can think of doing is jumping the bidding to 5D.

"Maybe they bid on to a slam which isn't making."
Unlikely. As explained above, partner seems to have some values.


That is, you need to protect. They could be making 5D while your side can either make 5H or has a cheap save. The double game swing is the real danger.

In fact, if they bid 6D, you will bid 6H. You must protect.

[nekthen]

Now seeing the full deal, I hate the 1♥ overcall. The leap to 5♦ is spot on, but I think South should bid 6♦ whether or not E bids 5♥. I would be very disappointed if I found xx♥ in dummy.

[eagles123]

nekthen, on 2016-October-07, 15:05, said:

Now seeing the full deal, I hate the 1♥ overcall. The leap to 5♦ is spot on, but I think South should bid 6♦ whether or not E bids 5♥. I would be very disappointed if I found xx♥ in dummy.

LOL

it's very easy to hate bids when you can see the entire hand, that's just resulting crap, but as for "leap to 5 diamonds is spot on" well i have to say it again

LOL

it's the kind of bid that week 1 beginners will make, it's just totally nuts

[miamijd]

Kaitlyn S, on 2016-October-06, 12:14, said:

I've been annoying players in the Laws forums for days now and am really trying to resist doing the same here, but I can hardly fail to mention that this seems like one more way that the average player can be gypped by the bridge lawyers. For you can't tell me that if I take my mandatory 10 seconds and then pass and partner doubles, that the director isn't going to be at my table really soon with some bad news for me.

This might be a good time to mention that in a recent ACBL bulletin, there was a letter to the editor requesting to dump the STOP card because it was being used far more often to make partner aware you are showing strength than for its intended purpose.

What sort of ignorant directors work at your games?

[Kaitlyn S]

eagles123, on 2016-October-07, 15:13, said:

it's the kind of bid that week 1 beginners will make, it's just totally nuts

Sadly, also people that sign up for an advanced class.

Don't believe me? I recently taught a 13-table "advanced" class on duplicate strategy. The first week was hands giving them general tips on duplicate strategy to get a feel for the students in the class. In hand 1, the intent of the hand was to show that 3NT was better than 5 of a minor even with a big fit. This backfired miserably when the top score was +420, which was achieved at several tables when the CJ was led from dummy:

N: C-J109x
W: C-Q E-Kx
S: C-A87xxx
All four top honors went on this trick to let declarers make an overtrick in 5C.

While a legitimate overtrick was available in 3NT by taking five club tricks, all the "advanced" declarers went down when the dangerous opponent East won the second club trick with the king and returned partner's lead. Which reinforced the lesson, never NEVER overestimate the level of your prospective students, no matter how good they say they are.

In a different advanced class, first week again, fourteen of the fifteen tables played in 1H on the auction 1D Dbl P 1H P P P where the doubler was 4-3-2-4 minimum and the advancer had a 4-4-3-2 13-count. The other table awesomely got to 4S. Guess their auction:

Spoiler

1D Dbl P 1H P 1S P 4S
"I remembered to bid up the line this time, partner!"

[GrahamJson]

Sorry to spoil your 100% vote but I don't see this as close. You have to to an extreme optimist to hope that 5H is making. Therefore bidding 5H really only gains when oppo can make precisely 5D, not 4, not 6. Having five trumps is only helpful if you can ruff and on the bidding it is unlikely that there is more than one diamond ruff to be had as it sounds like oppo have at least a ten card fit. As it happens this is not the case, but only because non of the other players have their bid; S has a clear 1C bid, W has a dubious overcall and the 5D bid is just plain weird.

[cynac]

Apologies for returning to stop debate. Locally, we always use the stop card and it is frowned upon not to. (I.e. Only the "really good players" who get away with lots of stuff do it. The idea that yiu can use when to use a stop card is so clearly open t abuse that it could never be an allowable option.
JL

PS don't actuall wait ten seconds, just long enough to show that you culd have been thinking.

[iandayre]

ahydra, on 2016-October-06, 03:59, said:

---

IMPs, you're green vs red, club game.

ahydra

Cannot imagine passing here. 5H comes with no guarantees, but if its is best and I don't bid it, I have let down my partner big time.