[ahydra]

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IMPs, neither side vulnerable. Made 12 tricks, -750.

ahydra

[rmnka447]

East doesn't have the right hand to bid 3 NT. Yes, ♦ will run, but East has no stopper in 2 side suits. Chances of 3 NT making are slim at best. Furthermore, East has maybe 1 trick outside of ♦ and NO ♦ tricks if defending the hand. If East bids anything, it ought to be an immediate 5 ♦. The opponents may still compete, but finding a fit at the 5 level is pretty difficult and you'll avoid the double.

[wank]

all west for me.

opening the west hand a pre-empt is gross.

he should appreciate the 3NT doesn't show any defence and is often an attempt to shut the opps out. even if he wasn't aware of that originally, 5D should have been a wake-up call.

[Phil]

Both sides played a lot of catchup.

West opened a weird 3D and doubled without a real good reason. East bid a cutesy 3N and felt like he had to save.

I don't like anyone's bidding. West made two crappy calls to Easts one so west gets more of the charge.

[ahydra]

What's so bad about 3D? (In our style we don't really mind a side 4cM.)

ahydra

[rmnka447]

I'm not particularly enamored of West's 3 ♦ call, but chose not to criticize it not knowing the pair's preempting style.

Personally, I wouldn't preempt with an outside 4 card major. Give responder as little as ♠ KQxxx with an outside A and 4 ♠ may be laydown.

If one member of a pair wants to "operate" as East did with the 3 NT call, then IMO that person has to take responsibility for whatever follows. Nonetheless, once a player preempts preemptor's partner is in control of the hand. Preemptor's partner has a good idea what preemptor's hand is, but preemptor has no clue about his/her partner's hand. Also, it's better to keep faith with your original assessment of the hand than try to correct it later in the auciton.

[mcphee]

It takes a lot of imagination to dble with those west cards. Do not be confused folks, Assign The Brilliancy award is all west who prevented the opps from bidding slam! Jolly good.

[kenberg]

I can't recall ever having five diamonds to the AKJ and hearing partner open 3D. I would not be expecting to take many defense tricks against their game or slam contract. I also would not expect to either make 3NT or to play it undoubled. I have never had all that much faith in confusing the opponents by bidding 3NT and then pulling the double to diamonds or going on to 5D over whatever they bid. Apparently the effect here was to confuse the 3D opener into doubling. I guess W thought that although he did not have much of a 3D bid, surely E had his 3NT bid.

How do the lyrics go: Call the doctor, I think I'm gonna crash, the doctor say he's comin but you gotta pay him cash.
Life in the fast lane can be exciting.

[apollo1201]

More for East. After all, he allowed opps to find their H suit "cheaply" whereas if he bid 5D directly maybe South would have Xed and all would have ended in 5DX for a likely -100.

West obviously didnt think his partner had such a hand and wanted to signal a defensive trick? Anyway he got confused or wanted to compensate for his 1st (mis)bid? We'll never know but it cost only 300 (part of them due to partner) whereas we have to write 450 on East's bill.

Or it was a brillant stiped-tail ape dbl?

[kenberg]

apollo1201, on 2016-July-09, 06:25, said:

Or it was a brilliant stiped-tail ape dbl?

In the pass out seat I think it would be called by a different name.

[eagles123]

I don't particularly like the way east bid it but imo wests bidding shows a total lack of judgement. 3D is just a plain bad bid the hand has way too much potential for playing in spades to go in with a preempt

[wank]

ahydra, on 2016-July-09, 01:01, said:

What's so bad about 3D? (In our style we don't really mind a side 4cM.)

ahydra

some agreements, i.e. 'styles' are just too bad to use that as an excuse.

having played bridge for about 30 years i suspect i've opened a pre-empt with a side 4 card major in 1st/2nd seat somewhere around twice. it would have to be a very pure suit. something like kqj or qjt to 7. whatever one thinks about the idea in general, doing it on a crappy diamond (minor)} suit with a very decent spade suit on the side is just too perverted.

[wank]

doubl pst

[ggwhiz]

I too would never open 3♦ on those cards but the 3nt effort was beyond feeble, trying to trade 5♦ doubled -1 for 3nt down a gazillion? Or even 5♦ making if you reversed partners black suits.

Right strain, wrong level. If it occurred to me in time as west I might bid RKC on diamonds and if partner showed zero (and the opponents got active) I would dive at the 7 level if need be.

If my lho bid 5♥ over 4nt, partner doubles with zero and passes with one so it can't blow up on me yet.

[neilkaz]

Not my style to open 3♦ with this but since it is the OP's style, no blame there.

1/3 of the blame to for picking a bad time to get "clever" with a 3nt bid. Just bid 5D and get it over with and put the opp's to the last guess straight away.

2/3 of the blame to west for that awful double! Why does west think that having an ace makes this a double? Apparently West was taken in my his PD's silly 3nt bid, but once PD bids 5♦ later than doesn't X 5♥ West has a clear pass.

Did that 3nt bid somehow make west think this was now a forcing pass situation? If so then more blame to east for that 3nt bid!

[eagles123]

neilkaz, on 2016-July-09, 12:32, said:

Not my style to open 3♦ with this but since it is the OP's style, no blame there.

1/3 of the blame to for picking a bad time to get "clever" with a 3nt bid. Just bid 5D and get it over with and put the opp's to the last guess straight away.

2/3 of the blame to west for that awful double! Why does west think that having an ace makes this a double? Apparently West was taken in my his PD's silly 3nt bid, but once PD bids 5♦ later than doesn't X 5♥ West has a clear pass.

Did that 3nt bid somehow make west think this was now a forcing pass situation? If so then more blame to east for that 3nt bid!

sorry but this has nothing to do with style, its just bad judgement to preempt with this hand end of imo.

[Cyberyeti]

eagles123, on 2016-July-09, 12:40, said:

sorry but this has nothing to do with style, its just bad judgement to preempt with this hand end of imo.

It's an entirely legitimate style to decide that by preempting with a wide range of hands in first seat you potentially mess up 3 people, and you're 2:1 that the person you mess up is an opponent. Not sure whether I would on this actual hand, but I wouldn't crime it if that's your general approach.

[wank]

Cyberyeti, on 2016-July-09, 14:17, said:

It's an entirely legitimate style to decide that by preempting with a wide range of hands in first seat you potentially mess up 3 people, and you're 2:1 that the person you mess up is an opponent. Not sure whether I would on this actual hand, but I wouldn't crime it if that's your general approach.

that's an overly simplistic approach.

the opps are going to be far less inconvenienced than partner. if they have a heart fit, they're very likely to find it. when you have a 3 card discrepancy between the 2 majors, there's little chance of their getting to the wrong major fit (yes they might have difficulty choosing between clubs and hearts but that's less important). partner, on the other hand, is rarely going to be investigating the spade suit on the off chance you've got AT98 so that fit's going to be lost.

[wank]

btw i think the criticism of east is excessive. with 13 points the chances of getting 3NT under the radar are very reasonable, and whilst the undoubled penalty in 3NT would exceed the doubled penalty in 5D, that's because the hands fit very well and because west has such an atypical hand.

[Cyberyeti]

wank, on 2016-July-09, 15:43, said:

btw i think the criticism of east is excessive. with 13 points the chances of getting 3NT under the radar are very reasonable, and whilst the undoubled penalty in 3NT would exceed the doubled penalty in 5D, that's because the hands fit very well and because west has such an atypical hand.

My problem with 3N is that partner's side 4 card suit is much more likely to be in clubs than a major. In which case I'd like to have 5♦ on the table before the strong hand bids.