[eagles123]

---

system is (not my choice) weak and four

scoring is MP

worth a game try?

thanks

Eagles

[blackshoe]

I don't think so.

[neilkaz]

I have no aces and it's MP so I am not going to push towards a close game.

I presume playing 4CM that PD with 3♥ and 4♠ would've bid 1♠?

EDIT: I asked this since to me this makes it a tad more unlikely that we have a game since there's no 4-4 S fit.

[eagles123]

neilkaz, on 2015-January-14, 18:13, said:

I have no aces and it's MP so I am not going to push towards a close game.

I presume playing 4CM that PD with 3♥ abd 4♠ would've bid 1♠?

correct

[MrAce]

Only thing encouraging is that I assume 2♥ showed 4 card support, correct?

[mgoetze]

Hm, well, if partner has any two aces we have a decent game (and because we already have a lot of quacks, partner won't have as many... then again he'll likely have them in clubs...)

If I have some way of showing a short suit try in clubs, I would do that, but I assume you only had natural game tries available. I guess I'd pass, somewhat reluctantly.

[NickRW]

Well, p could have something like

xx
xxxx
xxx
KQJx

where even 3♥ looks dodgy. Alternatively he/she could have

Ax
Qxxx
Qxx
xxxx

where 4♥ looks very good. You pays your money and takes your choice as they say. Personally, given that it is MP, I would prefer not to invite. Now if it is IMPs and especially if I have a short suit game try available maybe I will be brave.

[whereagles]

MP scoring? hmmm.. that makes it harder. At imps it's a clear 3♦ to me.

I think I'd bid 3♦ or pass depending on field and tactical considerations.

[NickRW]

MrAce, on 2015-January-15, 01:06, said:

Only thing encouraging is that I assume 2♥ showed 4 card support, correct?

Depends on style. Some people prefer it to show 4, but many will prefer the single raise to 1NT with 3 and a shortage, for example with:

x
Qxx
Qxxx
QTxxx

[mgoetze]

whereagles, on 2015-January-15, 04:04, said:

MP scoring? hmmm.. that makes it harder. At imps it's a clear 3♦ to me.

I think I'd bid 3♦ or pass depending on field and tactical considerations.

Eh... if I don't have a short suit try available I'd prefer a simple 3♥ to any help suit / long suit try.

[Fluffy]

mgoetze, on 2015-January-15, 05:36, said:

Eh... if I don't have a short suit try available I'd prefer a simple 3♥ to any help suit / long suit try.

You mean it is better for partner to think ♦Q and ♣Q are equal than to think ♦Q is better? If we are inviting it is obvious to use diamond invite.

Also hands with just ♠A + ♣A offer no play in game. I think we need 2 red honnors to have a good game, 1 to have a chance. EDIT: With 4 trumps in fornt 2 aces will offer a chance nearly always sorry.

[PhilKing]

I think it is a pretty neutral decision whether to try for game or not, but my guess is that pass is a tiny winner in the long run.

Just to clarify what I believe to be the standard acol style of raises, if partner has only 3 trumps they should have a ruffing value and should have a maximum of 8 points, and if they have 4 trumps they can't have more than a decent 8 count. The point is that a minimum strong no trump is expected to pass the raise, so raising to 2 is not particularly strong.

[whereagles]

Well if pard can't have more than 8, pass becomes much more appealing.

[fromageGB]

Well, not my system either, but I would assume 2♥ is 6-10 and 4 hearts (or equivalent with shortage) therefore on the principle that a 23 point 9 card fit is worth bidding game, with my excellent 14 it is certainly worth a try.

The actual form of a try depends on trial agreements, but I like a "nothing" try, either no values or a short suit, with 2♠ (2M+1) if I have scattered values, so 3♣ from me. Partner should be able to judge.

[GrahamJson]

It's close, but I think pass is the percentage bid. If I did make a try, lacking any agreement 2S looks best. Partner can then show values in clubs (bad) or diamonds (good) .

[nekthen]

As this is my style of bidding, I am in the 3♦ camp. P should now know what to do. I do not think the fact that I opened in 4th seat makes any difference to the bidding

[fourdad]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

Seems to me the aggressive action is an invite of 3H....and even that may be too much if pd has overly aggressive tendencies.

[fourdad]

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

Seems to me the aggressive action is an invite of 3H....and even that may be too much if pd has overly aggressive tendencies.

[NickRW]

fourdad, on 2015-January-16, 05:26, said:

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

Well, simplistically 10-12 is in the range of a game try and therefore not a 2H response. However, there are times when you pick up a 4333 shaped 10 count with no aces and 9 losers that you have to decide if it is really worth a game try, and especially so if partner has opened in 3rd or 4th seat (and therefore may be a tad light).

[MrAce]

fourdad, on 2015-January-16, 05:26, said:

Would partner, a passed hand, bid 2H with 10 points? Is that not what he needs for there to be a game try?

Seems to me the aggressive action is an invite of 3H....and even that may be too much if pd has overly aggressive tendencies.

Especially if the pair is using drury.