[Cthulhu D]

I play an unbalanced 1D opening (11-21) in the context of a 1C: Clubs or balanced, 5 card majors, 14-16 NT system. I'm thinking about my responses to 1D. We used to play SJS, but that doesn't make a great deal of sense. I've read Mgoetze's thread on the topic and I was thinking of the following structure makes much sense

1D - ??:

1H: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses
1S: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses

1NT: Hands that cannot make a sensible other response (tends to have some club length, relatively weak)

Then the responses I'm not sure about. I really liked Mgoetze's 2C response, but I'm not sure how to make continuations work

2C: Clubs GF, Bal GF or 7-10 (maybe this needs to be 7-9) diamonds.
2D: Weak with a major
2H: Reverse Flannery by Responder - is this really required with Xfer responses?
2S: Initvitational+ raise of diamonds
2NT: Balanced invite to 3NT with short diamonds and no 4 card major
3C: Invitational with 6 clubs
3D: Premeptive raise.

Thoughts?

[foobar]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-11, 20:01, said:

I play an unbalanced 1D opening (11-21) in the context of a 1C: Clubs or balanced, 5 card majors, 14-16 NT system. I'm thinking about my responses to 1D. We used to play SJS, but that doesn't make a great deal of sense. I've read Mgoetze's thread on the topic and I was thinking of the following structure makes much sense

1D - ??:

1H: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses
1S: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses

How do the transfer responses work?

Here's what I came up with over a similar 1♦ opening (albeit weaker):

1M: Natural
1N: < 12; not suitable for any other bid

1D - 2C (12+; GF unless suit rebid):
=========================

2D: 5+ diamonds, single suited min or two-suited hands
2H: Three suited, short clubs, min
2S: Good raise with 4+ clubs; 2N asks for shortness
2N: GF, 6+ diamonds
3C: Min raise with 4+ clubs
3N: Three suited, short clubs, max

1D - 2D (12+; GF unless suit rebid):
========================

2H: Three suited, short diamonds, min (rarely (42)=2=5)
2S: Good raise with 4+ diamonds; 2N asks for shortness
2N: GF, 6+ clubs
3C: Min, 6+ clubs
3D: Min raise
3N: Three suited, short clubs, max

1D - 2H:Reverse flannery, < invite
1D - 2S:Reverse flannery, invite
1D - 2N: Invitational

[foobar]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-11, 20:01, said:

I play an unbalanced 1D opening (11-21) in the context of a 1C: Clubs or balanced, 5 card majors, 14-16 NT system. I'm thinking about my responses to 1D. We used to play SJS, but that doesn't make a great deal of sense. I've read Mgoetze's thread on the topic and I was thinking of the following structure makes much sense

1D - ??:

1H: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses
1S: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses

How do the transfer responses work?

Here's what I came up with over a similar 1♦ opening (albeit weaker):

1M: Natural
1N: < 12; not suitable for any other bid

1D - 2C (12+; GF unless suit rebid):
=========================

2D: 5+ diamonds, single suited min or two-suited hands
2H: Three suited, short clubs, min
2S: Good raise with 4+ clubs; 2N asks for shortness
2N: GF, 6+ diamonds
3C: Min raise with 4+ clubs
3N: Three suited, short clubs, max

1D - 2D (12+; GF unless suit rebid):
========================

2H: Three suited, short diamonds, min (rarely (42)=2=5)
2S: Good raise with 4+ diamonds; 2N asks for shortness
2N: GF, 6+ clubs
3C: Min, 6+ clubs
3D: Min raise
3N: Three suited, short clubs, max

1D - 2H:Reverse flannery, < invite
1D - 2S:Reverse flannery, invite
1D - 2N: Invitational

[Cthulhu D]

I'm basically playing the responses from Mgoetze's prior thread (http://www.bridgebas...830%3B-opening/), and from the previous thread about transfers after 1D-1M. I like echognome/phils 1NT Gazzili thing, but partner and I play transfers every where else so the conceptual memory load is lower so we're doing that.

Spoiler

so 1D-1H

1S: Nat
1NT: Clubs
2C: Diamonds
2D: 3 card Heart raise
2H: 4 card heart raise
2S: NAt Reverse
2NT: Great heart raise or 6 diamonds 3 hearts in a very strong hand (1D-1H-2C-2D-2H implies a 15-16 ish hand, whereas going via 2NT is 17+
3C: 5/5 minors
3D: ?!?!?!? No idea, because it seems like a lot of jump rebids should start with 2C. Currently it's not defined what the difference between 1D-1M-2C-2D-3D and 1D-1M-3D is. I suspect one should be 16-17 or 16-18 and the other should be a total max but whatever.
3H: Intermediate 4 card raise (Violating LOTT :siren:)
3S: Self Splinter (massive hand)

and 1D-1S:

1NT: Clubs
2C: Hearts
2D: Diamonds (thinking about swapping w/2C for memory reasons, despite being inferior)
2H: 3 card spade raise
2S: 4 card spade raise
2NT: great 4 card spade raise or 6 diamonds 3 spades in a very strong hand
3C: 5/5 minors
3D: Regular jump rebid.
3H: Self splinter
3S: Intermediate 4 card raise

as my 1D promises 4+ Diamonds (and 4 only if any 4441 or (13)=4=5) I don;'t really need the short diamonds rebids by opener!

What I'm stumped on is what to do over 1D-2C - 2D effectively becomes P/C, but I'm worried that the separation between the hands isn't large enough.

[phoenix214]

The way i play the unbalanced diamond at the moment goes as follows:
1M - Natural with 4 cards
1NT - INV+ with clubs or bal(Think 1M-2C but instead of GF, it is INV+)
2X - Natural and non-forcing
2NT - INV + with diamonds
3C - Nat, NF
3D - Weak raise
3M - splinter

[gordontd]

phoenix214, on 2014-November-12, 06:46, said:

The way i play the unbalanced diamond at the moment goes as follows:
1M - Natural with 4 cards
1NT - INV+ with clubs or bal(Think 1M-2C but instead of GF, it is INV+)
2X - Natural and non-forcing
2NT - INV + with diamonds
3C - Nat, NF
3D - Weak raise
3M - splinter

So both 2C & 3C are nat NF? What's the difference between the two?

[Kungsgeten]

So is your 2♣ bid like a puppet to 2♦ (unless opener is strong), which responder pass when holding the raise hand?

We use the following:

1NT = Clubs, weak or GF
2♣ = Diamond raise, weak or GF (3+ if weak, 4+ if GF)
2♦ = 3+ diamond raise, INV

This is in combination with 1♥ being natural or a GF relay.

We use weak jump shifts, but you could probably find better uses for it. Perhaps:

2♥ = Balanced GF (if not wanting to use 1♥ as artificial)
2♠ = GF with a 5-5 pattern (not including diamonds)

In your original structure you could skip Reverse Flannery and play 2♥ as 4+ support and INV+, instead of 2♠, to save some bidding space.

[mgoetze]

Well, I am flattered. Look forward to seeing what you come up with.

[Cthulhu D]

Kungsgeten, on 2014-November-12, 09:58, said:

So is your 2♣ bid like a puppet to 2♦ (unless opener is strong), which responder pass when holding the raise hand?

In your original structure you could skip Reverse Flannery and play 2♥ as 4+ support and INV+, instead of 2♠, to save some bidding space.

Yeah, that's the plan. Sort of - A big question is how forcing is 1D-2C-2D - I think it can be one of the following 3:

1) Not Forcing
2) Semi Forcing (any 7-10 diamond raise that would reject an invite passes, anything else bids)
3) Forcing - absolutely forcing.

This effects your response structure considerably. Playing NF, my 'was bored in a meeting so sketched out response structure' was:

1D-2C (Big question - does this deny a 4 card major?)

Spoiler

2D: Waiting, 11-14ish minimum hand - a hand that is confident of not missing game opposite the 7-10 hand.
2H: 15+ Invite+ reverse. F1
2S: 15+ Invite+ Reverse. F1
2NT: ??? - I was thinking this should be the club canape hand (13)=4=5 but we don't need that so I'm foxed. significant extra values? Not sure
3C: 15+ diamonds + clubs
3D: Extra diamond length, invitational opposite the 7-10 hand
3HS: 18+ self splinters - GF opposite any hand. Trying to tell partner what stoppers are needed for 3NT? Not sure
3NT: ???

A couple of holes there obviously.That's not great, but the rebids are cramped as well, and some of them are under or overloaded. That gives a response structure of:

Then 1D-2C-2D:

Spoiler

Pass: 7-10 Diamonds. I don't like it because it's violating the law. We'd like to bid 3D. It's possible that we should bid 3D, then we can put more hand sthrough the 2D relay if the 2D relay is forcing.
2H: 4+ - I'd like this to be only an unbalanced hand (and thus imply 5 clubs), because that's analogus with what we play in an analogus auction (1M-2C (3 card limit raise, Bal GF, Club GF) 2D: Minimum relay, 2oM is then 4 major 5 clubs).
2S: 4+, same situation as 4H.
2NT: Balanced GF clearly. Can it contain a 4 card major? The problem is this is quite wide ranging - 13+
3C: Clubs, 6+ unbalanced, GF strength. I think after this 3M is showing a stopper for 3NT.
3D: Clubs with 2ndary diamond support.
3H: ?!?
3S: ??!!
3NT: To play - opener is tightly limited to responder should be able to place the contract.

I'm not sure what to do with 3H+ - I think 3M needs to be quite a specific hand, and no idea what 3NT is? DNE?

I thought about Semi forcing as well. This makes all the responses easier because it's GF opposite the minimum, but sometimes it's not very clear what is going on in the rebids

Spoiler

2D: Waiting, 11-16ish minimum hand - a hand that is confident of not missing game opposite the minimum hands from the 7-10 diamond raise.
2H: 16+ Traditional reverse GF
2S: 16+ Invite+ Reverse. GF
2NT: ??? - I was thinking this should be the club canape hand (13)=4=5 but we don't need that so I'm foxed. significant extra values? Not sure
3C: 16+ diamonds + clubs
3D: Extra diamond length, invitational opposite the 7-10 hand
3HS: 18+ self splinters - GF opposite any hand. Trying to tell partner what stoppers are needed for 3NT? Not sure
3NT: ???

[steve2005]

Cthulhu D, on 2014-November-11, 20:01, said:

I play an unbalanced 1D opening (11-21) in the context of a 1C: Clubs or balanced, 5 card majors, 14-16 NT system. I'm thinking about my responses to 1D. We used to play SJS, but that doesn't make a great deal of sense. I've read Mgoetze's thread on the topic and I was thinking of the following structure makes much sense

1D - ??:

1H: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses
1S: 4+ Natural, Transfer Responses

1NT: Hands that cannot make a sensible other response (tends to have some club length, relatively weak)

Then the responses I'm not sure about. I really liked Mgoetze's 2C response, but I'm not sure how to make continuations work

2C: Clubs GF, Bal GF or 7-10 (maybe this needs to be 7-9) diamonds.

NOT A BIG FAN OF THIS. 7-9 WITH DIAMONDS CAN BID 1N OR BIG DIST 2D. PREFER 2C INV+ CAN STOP IN 3C/D AND USE 3C PREEMPTIVE


2D: Weak with a major

THIS WHILE NICE PUSHES THE DIAMOND RAISE TO 2S WHICH WILL MAKE DIAMOND RAISE MORE DIFFICULT TO EXPLORE


2H: Reverse Flannery by Responder - is this really required with Xfer responses?
2S: Initvitational+ raise of diamonds
2NT: Balanced invite to 3NT with short diamonds and no 4 card major
3C: Invitational with 6 clubs
3D: Premeptive raise.

Thoughts?

COMMENTS IN CAP ABOVE

ALSO LIKE 3♥/3♠/4♣ AS GOOD GF SPLINTER RAISE

[Cthulhu D]

I am not sure you need more apace after 1D-2S. It depends if you want to play someyhing different than 1M--2NT. That structure fits, but is less useable because you are not going to be balanced or have a 5 card major.

1D-2S:

Spoiler

2N: Any minimum other bids imply extras. 3C asks for more info.
3C: a stiff (heavily implies you have some 5431 shape) 3D asks which
3D: 6+
3HS: 2nd suit
3NT: ??
4C: 5/5

While this is clearly sub optimal contextually, its got the advantage of being easy to remember.

That said I think Kungsteen is right - I should scrap reverse flannery and pull the balanced game forces out of 2C.

This greatly simplifies responders rebid:

So after the 1D opener:

Spoiler

1M: 4+
1NT: minimum balanced or clubs.
2C: GF clubs or diamond raise
2D: WJS in a major.
2H: GF Bal - may contain 4 spades but not 4 hearts.
2S: Inv+ diamonds
2NT: Balanced invite to 3NT.
3C: Invitation with 6Cs.
3D: Preemptive raise.
3M: Splinter

[Cthulhu D]

Eventually went with:

1D:

1M 4+
1N Various balanced or club hands
2C: GF with 5 clubs (may be balanced, may be 4 if and only if 3334 exactly with 16+ HCP), or a (6)7-9 ish diamond raise with 4.
2D: Weak 2 in a major
2H: Reverse Flannery
2S: Invitational+ in diamonds
2N: Balanced invite
3C: Invitational with 6 clubs
3D: Preemptive diamond raise
3M: Splinter
3N: 3334 exactly 13-15
4C: Splinter
4D: Minorwood
4M: Exclusion RKCB

Followups:

1D-2C

Spoiler

R	O	R	O	
2C				unbalanced diamond raise (4+) 6-9 (denies 4cM), or 5+C GF, or artificial w/ bal GF.  Can have 4cM
	2D			Minimum hand (11-15(-))
		2H		4H, 5+ clubs
		2S		4S, 5+ clubs
		2N		2 diamonds, 5+ clubs
		3C		0-1D 6+ clubs
		3D		3 diamonds, 5+ clubs
			3H	Shortness
			3S	Shortness
			3N	Bad hand for slam
			4C	Control for slam
			4D	Minorwood
			4H	Slam try for clubs? 
			4S	Slam try for diamonds
		3H		Shortness with 5+ clubs and 3-4 diamonds
			3S	Shortness
			3N	Bad hand for slam
			4C	Control for slam
			4D	Minorwood
			4H	Slam try for clubs? 
			4S	Slam try for diamonds
		3S		Shortness with clubs and diamonds?
			3N	Bad hand for slam
			4C	Control for slam
			4D	Control for slam
			4H	Control - may be shortness
			4S	Control - may be shortness
	2H			4+ Extras
	2S			4+ Extras
	2NT			Invitational plus opposite the diamond hand 16+ (or a sweet 15)
		3C		Unbalanced with clubs, denies diamond support
		3D		Minimum diamond hand
			3H	Shortness ask
		3M		Clubs+diamonds, short M, slamming
		3N		Maximum diamond hand
		4C		DNE ???
		4D		Ace asking for diamonds
		4H		Exclusion for diamonds
		4S		Exclusion for diamonds
	3C			Natural clubs, 15-17
	3D			6+, 15-17 HCP unbalanced
	3M			Splinter - GF oppose the minimum