[wizardss]

Team match
Vul Both

♠73
♥9532
♦96
♣A7632

LHO Pn RHO You
--- 2S. X.. P..
2NT P.. 3NT AP

2S = Weak 2, pretty standard textbook style, approx rule of 2/3
2NT = lebensohl, intend to sign off



Partner Leads SQ, standard lead, possible chance of KQT9xx

--------------- Dummy
--------------- ♠82
--------------- ♥KQJ4
--------------- ♦AKQJT2
--------------- ♣K

You
♠73
♥9532
♦96
♣A7632

SQ S2 S7(Count) S2
C5 CK CA C4
?

Any difference if
SQ S2 S7(Count) S2
C8 CK CA C4
?

[FrancesHinden]

Partner is marked with the ace of hearts, otherwise declarer would have won the spade lead and taken 10 tricks in the red suits.
So I play a spade back, hoping partner has exactly KQ109xx of spades and the jack of clubs. I'd have opened that 1S, but I can't see any other genuine way to beat it.

[the hog]

S back for me s well for the same reason as Frances.

[FrancesHinden]

deleted, sorry rubbish

[rhm]

I think there is conflicting evidence:

For the contract to be defeated partner needs the ♥A.

Partner led his lowest club. Unless he has a singleton club or ♣Q5 this says continue clubs. Do not switch back to spades. With a good partner this is a very strong inference.
Partner can not have ♣Q5 and enough for a spade switch to be successful or he would have an opening bid.
If partner's club is singleton the hand is dead. Declarer now has enough tricks.
If you trust partner you must assume that partner has something like ♠QJTxxx ♥Ax ♦x ♣QTxx and declarer ducked with ♠AKx, also not very credible. This would be his only chance on the actual layout, but stupid if you held the ♣Q.
When in doubt trust partner and continue clubs.

If the ♣8 is led at trick 2 there is no issue.

Rainer Herrmann

[FrancesHinden]

rhm, on 2014-March-30, 02:59, said:

I think there is conflicting evidence:

For the contract to be defeated partner needs the ♥A.

Partner led his lowest club. Unless he has a singleton club or ♣Q5 this says continue clubs. Do not switch back to spades. With a good partner this is a very strong inference.
Partner can not have ♣Q5 and enough for a spade switch to be successful or he would have an opening bid.
If partner's club is singleton, declarer must have something close to♠AJ2 ♥xx ♦xx ♣QJT984.
Would declarer bid 2NT lebensohl with ♠AJ2 ♥xx ♦xx ♣QJT984? I would inquire opponents
If no and you trust partner you must assume that partner has something like ♠QJTxxx ♥Ax ♦x ♣QTxx and declarer ducked with ♠AKx, also not very credible.
This would be his only chance on the actual layout, but stupid if you held the ♣Q.
When in doubt trust partner and continue clubs.

If the ♣8 is led at trick 2 there is no issue.

Rainer Herrmann

If declarer has QJ10984 of clubs he now has 11 tricks whatever you play, so it's really not relevant what he would have bid on that.

[rhm]

FrancesHinden, on 2014-March-30, 03:03, said:

If declarer has QJ10984 of clubs he now has 11 tricks whatever you play, so it's really not relevant what he would have bid on that.

I corrected my input already.
You are right. But this strengthen the conclusion to continue clubs.

Rainer Herrmann

[gszes]

Return a spade
There is no reason your top spade has to be from the top
of a doubleton it could very easily be a singleton. Your partner
realizes this and has made a defensive return in case you have
a singleton ie a low club. Your partner can also count 9 tricks
for declarer unless certain assumptions are made since a spade
continuation is hopeless. The low club return gives an alternative
possible defense (in case you started with 1 spade and 4 clubs with
the AQT and no less).
Two things say return a spade.

1. It seems absurd for declarer to duck the spade AK with 8 tricks
off the top and a strong chance of getting helpful discards from the
opps while running the diamonds AND took the risk of a club switch
setting them.

2. Our club spots are insufficient to make a club return work once we
assume declarer ducking with AK seems implausible at best.

Our partner will do their best to try and help us with their signaling
so partner may have returned a LOW club because a club could be right but
we know it cannot be because of all the considerations we have to make plus
counting out partner's possible hands combinations in conjunction with a weak
2 spade bid AND declarer's decision to duck trick 1.

[rhm]

gszes, on 2014-March-30, 09:08, said:

Return a spade
There is no reason your top spade has to be from the top
of a doubleton it could very easily be a singleton. Your partner
realizes this and has made a defensive return in case you have
a singleton ie a low club. Your partner can also count 9 tricks
for declarer unless certain assumptions are made since a spade
continuation is hopeless.

This makes no sense to me. The logic is backwards.
If you have a singleton spade you will never be able to a return spade obviously, no matter what club card partner chooses to lead.
If partner plays a high club and you have no spade left, guess what choices remain for you here, in particular with this dummy in sight.
The issue arises only when you have a choice, that means you have another spade.
High club means I would like a switch. If you happen to have no spade left: hard luck.
Low club: I do not want a switch, I am interested in clubs, even if you happen to have another spade and are tempted.
I am surprised that this simple and standard meaning of attitude leads requires discussion in the expert forum.
You can read about it in almost any beginner book on card play.

And by the way I was wrong in my initial statement cited by FrancesHinden.
If declarer has something like

♠AKx ♥xxx ♦xxxx ♣Jxx

The duck may look farfetched but in fact was clever:
If we have the ♣Q the hand can not be beaten whether declarer ducks or not.
But if partner has the ♣Q the duck apparently gives a lot of players a chance to go wrong by returning a spade.
If declarer takes the first spade there is less chance for the defense to go wrong, certainly not if declarer cashes his diamonds.

Rainer Herrmann

[gszes]

rhm, on 2014-March-30, 15:13, said:

This makes no sense to me. The logic is backwards.
If you have a singleton spade you will never be able to a return spade obviously, no matter what club card partner chooses to lead.
If partner plays a high club and you have no spade left, guess what choices remain for you here, in particular with this dummy in sight.
The issue arises only when you have a choice, that means you have another spade.
High club means I would like a switch. If you happen to have no spade left: hard luck.
Low club: I do not want a switch, I am interested in clubs, even if you happen to have another spade and are tempted.
I am surprised that this simple and standard meaning of attitude leads requires discussion in the expert forum.
You can read about it in almost any beginner book on card play.

And by the way I was wrong in my initial statement cited by FrancesHinden.
If declarer has something like

♠AKx ♥xxx ♦xxxx ♣Jxx

The duck may look farfetched but in fact was clever:
If we have the ♣Q the hand can not be beaten whether declarer ducks or not.
But if partner has the ♣Q the duck apparently gives a lot of players a chance to go wrong by returning a spade.
If declarer takes the first spade there is less chance for the defense to go wrong, certainly not if declarer cashes his diamonds.

Rainer Herrmann

If your partner had say KQT9xx Ax xx 876 after trick 1 they "know" another spade is useless so they
must make an assumption that your clubs are good enough to set declarer. They will return the 8 to
let you know the circumstances just in case your clubs are not good enough to set the hand OR in
case you have another spade (even better). When p has KQT9xx Ax x Jxxx they will return a low club
just to let you know they have a club honor in case your clubs are good enough to set declarer and
you have only a singleton spade.

As an aside, I have been a firm believer in the lead of the T showing 0 or 2 higher from any suit
I have promised 5 or more of (against NT) simply because it is not reasonable to ask the Q to show
both a desire for p to unblock and be the top of a sequence. AQT KJT QJT AKT are all reasonable
candidates for leading the T if we do not have a strong reason to plunk down a top honor. The specific
case of KQT is better handled by laying down the K as asking for an unblock (of either the Q or the J)
since we do not have to risk losing 2 tricks to the AJx. If the K is top of a sequence nothing is lost
and worst case if p cannot cooperate they will know we do not hold any of the above 4 examples

In the given hand if p leads the T (assuredly 2 higher) you know a spade return is useless and you
would continue clubs.

[wizards]

Thanks Rainer,

Can you elaborate more on the given hand,

AKX
Xxxx
Xxx
Jxx

At which way, at least in psychological prospect that why ducking the first spade could increase the chance that defense goes wrong?


I think that's the way to makes the clubs stands out.

[andrei]

I think W made a big mistake in switching to a club a trick 2.

Presumably he holds QJT9xx of spades, and after first trick he can infer that declarer duck from AKx(x). With Hx in spades East would have covered Q, and even if East has Kxx (which is pretty much impossible since apparently 7 was showing count and also East did not support spades) and declarer has Ax xxxx xxx Axxx, switching to clubs gives the contract away.

So the only chance to set the contract now would be for East to have A clubs. But, playing on clubs right away risks having east returning a spade back when he started with a xx. When East has A clubs, declarer has only 8 tricks available, so W should play a spade at trick 2, clarifying the spade position, and then it should be easy for defence to get their club tricks before declare can win 9.

[akhare]

wizards, on 2014-April-01, 18:45, said:

Thanks Rainer,

Can you elaborate more on the given hand,

AKX
Xxxx
Xxx
Jxx

At which way, at least in psychological prospect that why ducking the first spade could increase the chance that defense goes wrong?


I think that's the way to makes the clubs stands out.

What are the their agreements regarding the maximum HCPs in the 2N "sign off" bid? Can responder bid 2N with the above hand? Can 2N be followed by 3N to show the above?

[bluecalm]

Quote

Partner is marked with the ace of hearts, otherwise declarer would have won the spade lead and taken 10 tricks in the red suits.

This and also declarer can't have AK of spades with possible problem in clubs unless he is doing charity work on this deal.

Quote

And by the way I was wrong in my initial statement cited by FrancesHinden.
If declarer has something like

♠AKx ♥xxx ♦xxxx ♣Jxx

Yeah, and now declarer just lost laydown contract if one of the defenders has AQxx od clubs or S holds the Q.

[rhm]

bluecalm, on 2014-April-02, 23:53, said:

This and also declarer can't have AK of spades with possible problem in clubs unless he is doing charity work on this deal.



Yeah, and now declarer just lost laydown contract if one of the defenders has AQxx od clubs or S holds the Q.

Nonsense.
If South holds the ♣Q (West being declarer), there is no way 3NT can go down, because declarer has a club stopper. (2 spade tricks, 6 diamond tricks and one club trick or a heart trick)
Ducking can only lose the contract from declarer's point of view (compared to winning the opening lead) if North has ♣AQ and South the ♥A. (North cashes the ♣A at trick 2 and then continues spades)
Given that South is very likely to hold a majority of the club cards this layout is quite unlikely but possible.

Rainer Herrmann