[Bbradley62]

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Should the 2♦ description include an upper limit on hand strength?

PS: No, I don't know why the human didn't simply bid 2♦ over 1♠.

[georgi]

From that point of view for this hand 2♦ although not specified in description is not forcing for GIB.

Forcing is:
- 2♠ ( or cue overcall ) to show 4+ in OM and 5+ fit in opening.
- 3other minor jump, showing 4+4+ and GF

Or direct overcall with longer suit and introducing new later.

[1eyedjack]

What do you do with a hand too strong for a simple overcall and yet has not 4 in OM? In other words, with the hand stated?

[Stephen Tu]

georgi, on 2013-October-30, 11:41, said:

From that point of view for this hand 2♦ although not specified in description is not forcing for GIB.

Forcing is:
- 2♠ ( or cue overcall ) to show 4+ in OM and 5+ fit in opening.
- 3other minor jump, showing 4+4+ and GF

Or direct overcall with longer suit and introducing new later.

This is completely non-std. GIB doesn't/shouldn't play negative free bids as they are quite a minority treatment. On other auctions free bid is forcing, isn't it?
2♠ should DENY 4+ in OM and show fit in opening. With 5+ OM, bid OM. With 4cd OM, negative double, force to game (either bid some game, 3nt, or cue bid) later.

jumps are probably weak for most people, though I suppose it's possible for GIB to play fit jumps. Surely a jump in the other minor should, if fit jump, show FIVE+ in other minor, 4+ in opening minor, at least, not just 4-4. I think weak jump shift (6/7 cd suit, no support) is probably more common though and what I'd want GIB to play since I think simpler is better given large range of people using it.

Also, the term here is "free bid" by south, not "overcall".

[georgi]

Hm,

let's say i went into language trouble again.

I didn't say 2♠ as first possible call-cuebid shows 5+ fit in opening and 4+ cards in OM.

I referred to the title which leads to situation that you already gave a double and what to do next.

So , for GIB next is what i wrote.

Agree for the term - free bid of course.

GIB wouldn't start with double and later introduce 5+ of any suit. If that 5+ suit is the opening, cuebid of overcall will follow showing limit raise or better hand.

If the suit is another one, would just bid 2X and later will cuebid.

Imagine you have the rest two suits even, not just one. So starting with double will prevent any chance of showing it later.

You probably not want auction like:
1♦ - 1♠ - X ( with 5+♥ 5+♣ ) - 4♠
P - P - ?

[Stephen Tu]

Oh I see, I was confused, I was thinking you meant what the bids mean immediately after 1♠ overcall, not on second round after negative double.

Quote

GIB wouldn't start with double and later introduce 5+ of any suit. If that 5+ suit is the opening, cuebid of overcall will follow showing limit raise or better hand.

Hmm, I think GIB should allow to bid some hand like x KQxx xxx Kxxxx by double then support clubs.
1c-(1s)-x-(p);1nt-(p)-?:
2C: maybe ~7-9/10?
3C: ~10-12
2S: GF, and not necessarily club support.
Cue bid after negative double should = GF, not LR+. I think dbl with x AKQx Axxxx xxx after partner open 1c is fine. You want to hear partner support heart if opp raise spade, but partner won't introduce heart if you bid diamonds. And auction may prevent you from bidding 3H yourself.

It should also be able to introduce diamonds with a weaker hand with same type of shape, 4-5/4-6 in the reds.

What it should avoid doing is neg double holding 5+ suit and GF values, or 5+ H and ~10+.

Quote

If the suit is another one, would just bid 2X and later will cuebid.

This works if you have GF. But it may not be best call with GF and 4 cd only hearts, it may be hard to find heart fit. And doesn't work if you are strong enough to neg dbl, but not strong enough to bid 2X.