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Flawed hand evaluation

#1 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2013-October-23, 15:42

IMP, Robot tourney, best hand South


Not the most outrageous decision by Robot North, but I think a clear error of judgement nonetheless.

The explanation of South's second double may be truncated by a softweare bug. There may be strength limitations that are not disclosed here. Even so I think that South's second double is normal and I would not expect many human Norths to bid 4

The explanation of 4 is flawed, by the way. A 5th is certainly not implicit.

That aside, the hand reeks of duplication and North has no compensating features (quite apart from being very weak in total)
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

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#2 User is offline   georgi 

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Posted 2013-October-30, 10:58

1st X - Takeout double -- 3+ ; 3+ ; 2- ; 3+ ; 21- HCP; 16-22 total points

2ns X - Takeout double -- 3+ ; 3+ ; 2- ; 3+ ; 21- HCP; 20-22 total points

North 4 shows 5+ because South's hand still shows 3+, but apparently North deduces it's 4 cards.

With 5TP, and 20-22 partner and hopefully fit in spades 3/4 comes after simulation.

By bidding 3 North would commit the task to bid calm, but why would partner doubled second time?

North passed once 1, then didn't bid 3 after first double to show length and max of the 5-7TP maybe.

South doubles again, what does he want to play?

3 with probable 4-3 fit?
4 with only 4-4 as North didn't bid also 4 to refuse fit in spades and only fit in diamonds and max passed hand?

In NV vs V isn't it too tempting to try 4 for -1, then 3? Small lose, might be big gain.

#3 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-October-30, 11:08

Just go ahead and make 10 tricks. It is trivially easy seeing all four hands, and not difficult at single-dummy play either.

After a heart lead and a trump shift (any other shift makes this even easier), ducked, win the continuation. Play AK of clubs. East shows out. Whether E ruffs or not, you play East for diamond length with the Q. The only remaining question is the location of the 10. If you get it right, you have 10 tricks.
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#4 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2013-October-30, 11:40

Yup, concede.

Out of interest, if you swap North's Hearts with one of its minors, I assume it would evaluate the hand the same?
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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#5 User is offline   ArtK78 

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Posted 2013-October-30, 13:04

I never said that I agreed with GIB's judgment about the hand. Only that you could (and perhaps should) make 10 tricks on the hand as the cards lie.

Speaking of GIB's bidding judgment, look at this one from an ACBL Matchpoint Robot Game last night:



2 showed spades and a minor.

I was shocked when the dummy appeared. I could only scramble home with 8 tricks for a slightly above average score.

Perhaps someone could explain GIB North's rationale behind its 4 call (as well as GIB East's failure to double 4).
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#6 User is offline   1eyedjack 

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Posted 2013-October-31, 01:43

Also, do you think that 2 is a sensible bid by West? Reverse the vul, perhaps.
Psych (pron. saik): A gross and deliberate misstatement of honour strength and/or suit length. Expressly permitted under Law 73E but forbidden contrary to that law by Acol club tourneys.

Psyche (pron. sahy-kee): The human soul, spirit or mind (derived, personification thereof, beloved of Eros, Greek myth).
Masterminding (pron. mPosted ImagesPosted ImagetPosted Imager-mPosted ImagendPosted Imageing) tr. v. - Any bid made by bridge player with which partner disagrees.

"Gentlemen, when the barrage lifts." 9th battalion, King's own Yorkshire light infantry,
2000 years earlier: "morituri te salutant"

"I will be with you, whatever". Blair to Bush, precursor to invasion of Iraq
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