[the hog]

Red vs Green, Imps
You hold
Tx
xx
Axxxx
AQxx

(2H) 3S (5H) ?

This is the bidding. You are playing against vg opponents. Your partnership is only 3 months or so old, so you have not discussed this or similar auctions, but partner is a good player. However you are not sure if pd would take pass as forcing. (I know some pairs who play this as forcing in strong auctions). Anyway, you had better do something as you have already thought a while.

[mcphee]

Double, and if partner bids I will raise to 6S and pass 6 of a minor. It's tempting to shoot 6 spades in the hope they will take a dive, but that may not work out so well. I do not think it is practical to play double as penalty. Slam looks very possible if partner has only 1 heart loser, it just might not be in spades.

[Fluffy]

if my RHO bids 5♥ I Bet 6♠ is odds on. Gonna try it.

[aguahombre]

Pass would not be taken by my Pard as forcing, nor would a double be taken as responsive after the 3S jump ---even though I would like the double to show this particular hand.

RHO has indeed put us to the guess here, and my guess is they are telling us they have 11 trumps; and my hand tells me there is a great chance of only one loser for us in six spades.

I do notice that some very strong players chose the Double; but I don't know the agreements they have for a pass, a double, or the 3S bid itself --and can only go on ours.

[Fluffy]

now I think of it, for the same price we might try pick a slam.It is not risk free, but some wonderful hands with ♠AQxxxx or AKJxxx might play much better in diamonds.

[aguahombre]

 Fluffy, on 2013-September-15, 09:04, said:

now I think of it, for the same price we might try pick a slam.

Interesting. When Pard has made a bid like 3S strongly suggesting a one-suiter which should be trumps, I don't think Pick-a-slam would be her interpretation. Maybe a demand to pick a minor.

[rhm]

6♠

Unlikely that RHO would bid 5♥ with values in spades.

Rainer Herrmann

[ggwhiz]

6♠

My partnership has all of the constraints previously mentioned. 3♠ is a 1-suiter (no pick a slam bid available) double warns against offence (could be an ace and a spade less) and pass should probably be forcing and it would never go float but it doesn't show slam interest for us, just nothing to say.

I'm truly stuck.

[MrAce]

Easy 6 ♠ but i am more concerned about missing a grand than going down in 6 ♠. But if i was in Hog's seat, with current lack of agreements i would not do something fancy and just bid 6♠

My choice of course may be biased due to my own standards of 3♠ bid, which may not be the case for hog.

[hautbois]

Out of curiosity, what should 5NT show or ask in this sequence?

[Fluffy]

What you have agreed, Pick a slam (2 places to play), would be normal in america, old fashioned players would use it as grand slam force, I have a partnership for whom this is blackwood.

[the hog]

I would also have bid 6S as my friend did. Rho got you. He had Qxx Axxx x xxxxx
Pd held
AKJ9xxx x KQx Kx
I don't know if I like 3S. 2 might be enough, I feel.

[rmnka447]

I'm used to playing a form of Roman Jump Overcalls (presumably a big 5-5 or better hand in the "jump" suit and next higher unbid suit) over a weak 2 bids. So for me, the auction would have to go either 2 ♥ - 4 ♠ or 2 ♥ - Dbl. I'd probably opt for 4 ♠.

In any case, I originally cast a vote for Double when this thread came up. I've been cogitating since on what to write about that choice.

On the auction, a double of 5 ♥ can hardly show a ♠ stack given the level of the contract. Partner probably only has a stiff or void in ♥. BUT, there are probably enough hands where it's just possible that partner might have a ♥ doubleton that I hate bidding on without distribution in their suit. While I do have tolerance for partner's suit, I don't have any holding that makes me think partner trump suit is solid. Double then, though penalty oriented, should be showing partner some good values and ask for his input.

[aguahombre]

 the hog, on 2013-September-16, 18:36, said:

I would also have bid 6S as my friend did. Rho got you. He had Qxx Axxx x xxxxx
Pd held
AKJ9xxx x KQx Kx
I don't know if I like 3S. 2 might be enough, I feel.

Yep. That takes us back to trying to answer without knowing what 3S looks like to the person who bid it. CHO, not RHO, got you. RHO shouldn't have that chance.

I could understand 2 and could understand 4 a little bit. 3S is a different animal for us.

[ggwhiz]

 the hog, on 2013-September-16, 18:36, said:

Rho got you. He had Qxx Axxx x xxxxx

Kudos to rho. I've seen a lot of pretty good players bid 4♥ (pretty much a transfer to 4♠ by us) here and scratch their heads when it comes back to them.

[RSClyde]

What does everyone think of the argument that pass is forcing because the opponents are pre-saving?
Regardless I'd just bid 6♠.

[aguahombre]

 RSClyde, on 2013-September-19, 09:35, said:

What does everyone think of the argument that pass is forcing because the opponents are pre-saving?
Regardless I'd just bid 6♠.

Can only speak for one out of everyone, on that point (well, actually two). But, pass forcing is plausible if Partner really has a 3S jump overcall by our standards. We still can't be sure, however, that RHO isn't being clever with the alledged pre-save. And we agree with ggwhiz' choice to just pass with nothing to say and bid 6S with this one...but his choice is probably based on a different standard for the 3S jump than the one given, also.

[the hog]

 RSClyde, on 2013-September-19, 09:35, said:

What does everyone think of the argument that pass is forcing because the opponents are pre-saving?
Regardless I'd just bid 6♠.

Marston - Burgess had the agreement that after a strong 1C opening by their side, and the opps bid to the 5 level at any time, pass was forcing. This was based on an analysis of several '000 hands from real life and from simulations. X had another meaning, though I cannot remember what exactly. (Penalties? Bad hand for the bidding so far? Extras?)

[the hog]

 RSClyde, on 2013-September-19, 09:35, said:

What does everyone think of the argument that pass is forcing because the opponents are pre-saving?
Regardless I'd just bid 6♠.

Marston - Burgess had the agreement that after a strong 1C opening by their side, and the opps bid to the 5 level at any time, pass was forcing. This was based on an analysis of several '000 hands from real life and from simulations. X had another meaning, though I cannot remember what exactly. (Penalties? Bad hand for the bidding so far? Extras?)

[nige1]

 the hog, on 2013-September-15, 03:51, said:

Red vs Green, Imps You hold ♠ T x ♥ x x ♦ A x x x x ♣ A Q x x
(2H) 3S (5H) ?
This is the bidding. You are playing against vg opponents. Your partnership is only 3 months or so old, so you have not discussed this or similar auctions, but partner is a good player. However you are not sure if pd would take pass as forcing. (I know some pairs who play this as forcing in strong auctions). Anyway, you had better do something as you have already thought a while.

IMO Double = 10, 5♠ = 9, 6♠ = 8, Pass = 5. Surprised that, so far, 5♠ has attracted no votes. For us, this isn't a forcing-pass context (but perhaps, it should be).