[barsikb]

♠ AK94
♥ K1087
♦ J985
♣ A


♠ 107
♥ Q9
♦ A10763
♣ J862

How shall I bid?

1D - 1NT -Pass?

1D - 2D - Pass?

[mgoetze]

These hands have a combined total of 22HCP. There is no reason to expect to bid and make game with 22HCP. (And indeed you won't always make this one, just imagine a club lead and ♦KQx offside.)

[Cyberyeti]

Game is actually not brilliant, although you would have similar issues with the J♥ instead of the 9 where it is much better.

There are system ways of bidding this hand type, but most of them are beyond N/B (for example if you play 2♦ inverted as we do so 2♦ is better than 3♦, 2N and 3♦ can be other types of raise, one of which for us is 5-8 with 5 card support).

Not playing inverted minors, either 1♦-2♦ or 1♦-1N is acceptable, I'd probably bid 2♦ as I don't fancy playing 1N on the decent subset of hands where 2/3♦ makes but 1N doesn't. Really depends exactly what my 1♦ shows.

[mgoetze]

Cyberyeti, on 2013-January-29, 07:53, said:

There are system ways of bidding this hand type,

There are also non-system ways of bidding this hand. You could bid 1NT-pass, which would not get you to game, or you could possibly bid 1♠-1NT-2♦-3♦-3NT which would, but I definitely don't recommend either approach for beginners.

[barsikb]

Thank you, 'Cyberyeti'

So if playing InvMinors how would the bidding go? 1D-3D-?

5D was making on this hand. Opps' diamonds were Q4-K2

[barsikb]

Thank you, 'mgoetze'. Not used to opening NT with unbalanced hand. Do many players do that nowdays? And opening 1S with four spades?

[Cyberyeti]

barsikb, on 2013-January-29, 08:28, said:

Thank you, 'mgoetze'. Not used to opening NT with unbalanced hand. Do many players do that nowdays? And opening 1S with four spades?

In America, very few people do either. In the UK opening a 4 card major is much more common (although prob 1♥ here). Because 4441 is a pretty rare hand type, some people like to treat it as balanced seeing the "no 5+4 card suits" as more important than "no singleton" in the definition of balanced if it makes the rest of the system better.

The other thing to note from this (I play 4 card majors) is that my 1♦ opening shows 4 which slightly changes the evaluation. You're not guaranteed to bid game even opposite a known 5-8 with 5 diamonds, but at least you have a chance to make a slightly more intelligent decision. For us, I can believe 1♦-2N(5-8 5♦ no 4 card major)-3N (which is quite decent on the likely major suit lead).

You need more than diamonds 2-2 to make 5♦, try a trump lead with A♥ over the Q, you're short of entries to hand to ruff all your clubs and are going to need to find J♥.

[barsikb]

'Cyberyeti', I heard about different style of bidding in UK and will try to learn more about it. Thank you for the explanation.

Is is necessary to warn opps (alert/announcement) if agreed to possible NT opening with a singleton?

[Cyberyeti]

barsikb, on 2013-January-29, 17:21, said:

'Cyberyeti', I heard about different style of bidding in UK and will try to learn more about it. Thank you for the explanation.

Is is necessary to warn opps (alert/announcement) if agreed to possible NT opening with a singleton?

Depends on local regulations, in the UK yes, not sure about elsewhere.

[Mbodell]

In the ACBL you, more or less, can't have an agreement to open nt with a singleton so warning opponents would be odd. You are allowed to open 1nt with a singleton, but it has to be extremely rare and partner isn't allowed to have systems to find it nor cater to it being there.

[aguahombre]

You mentioned inverted minor raises. There is an uncomfortable gap if 1-3= five to eight support points and 1-2= 11+. Some players close the gap, and expect their 1-3 raise to be carried to game more frequently than if the raise were a pure preempt.

This would be one of those "mixed" double raises, and 5D is quite reasonable to get to with that agreement.

[Cyberyeti]

aguahombre, on 2013-January-31, 02:18, said:

You mentioned inverted minor raises. There is an uncomfortable gap if 1-3= five to eight support points and 1-2= 11+. Some players close the gap, and expect their 1-3 raise to be carried to game more frequently than if the raise were a pure preempt.

This would be one of those "mixed" double raises, and 5D is quite reasonable to get to with that agreement.

There is an issue where if your 1♦ shows 4, you're much better placed in the inverted raise structure than if it only shows 3. What we do is to play 1m-2m as 9+ with 5 or 10+ with 4 (and may contain 4M), 2N 5-8 with 5, 3♦ 0-4 with 5, we have to respond 1N a little more often than we would really want.

Edit: something I should add, the style of inverted minors we play fits best with a weak no trump, because when you open 1♦, you have either extra shape or extra values, I don't think it really works if you open some of your weak no trumps (particularly some with only 3 diamonds) 1♦.

[barsikb]

Thank you, Cyberyeti, aguahombre, Mbodell