[Phil]

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Matchpoints.

This was the first board we played in today's Unit Game. Declarer held himself to 8 tricks which seemed like a good result for us.

Looking at the recap, Deep Finesse states North can take 10 tricks in hearts, but South can only take 9.

It is your job to figure out why.

[awm]

It looks like N/S should lose a heart, two diamonds, and a club. If West is on lead, he can lead a club away from his ace. Declarer wins in the South and takes a spade finesse, cashing the ace... but he cannot get back to his hand to discard the club loser without putting East in. East continues clubs (smothering the ten with his queen) and eventually E/W get two diamonds.

However, if East is on lead he cannot safely lead a club without enabling declarer to score two club tricks. Since diamonds are frozen, he will eventually pitch two diamonds from the North hand on spades and another diamond on the established club. If East plays diamonds he eliminates the diamond loser. If he plays clubs the diamond loser is also eliminated. If he never plays either of those suits, then West can never get in and declarer can discard North's clubs on South's spades.

[rduran1216]

w can lead a club at the go, which will preserve declarers 4 losers. Good luck finding that lead though, this is the problem with deep finesse, you get alot of "well ok if u do that, sure" kind of results haha

[Phil]

awm, on 2012-July-01, 21:24, said:

It looks like N/S should lose a heart, two diamonds, and a club. If West is on lead, he can lead a club away from his ace. Declarer wins in the South and takes a spade finesse, cashing the ace... but he cannot get back to his hand to discard the club loser without putting East in. East continues clubs (smothering the ten with his queen) and eventually E/W get two diamonds.

However, if East is on lead he cannot safely lead a club without enabling declarer to score two club tricks. Since diamonds are frozen, he will eventually pitch two diamonds from the North hand on spades and another diamond on the established club. If East plays diamonds he eliminates the diamond loser. If he plays clubs the diamond loser is also eliminated. If he never plays either of those suits, then West can never get in and declarer can discard North's clubs on South's spades.

Count the tricks - I don't think its enough.

[awm]

Phil, on 2012-July-01, 22:08, said:

Count the tricks - I don't think its enough.

The line I gave is clear if East leads a minor. Say he leads heart ace and then a spade. North wins, cashes a spade, plays two more rounds of trump ending in South, cashes two spades pitching clubs. Now he has four spades and four hearts and a diamond ruff coming, so E/W cannot give him any other trick. He calls for the diamond king; West must win. If west now plays a club (ace or low, it doesn't matter) then the club king is trick ten. So west plays another diamond; let's say the nine. North covers with the jack, East covers with the queen, and South ruffs. North ruffs a club back to hand; his last cards are ♥8 ♦86 with South having nothing useful. East has ♦T3 and West has ♦7. North plays the ♦8 smothering the seven, forcing a diamond trick. If West had played the diamond seven instead of the nine, North would cover cheaply and come to an equivalent position.

[Phil]

awm, on 2012-July-01, 22:39, said:

The line I gave is clear if East leads a minor. Say he leads heart ace and then a spade. North wins, cashes a spade, plays two more rounds of trump ending in South, cashes two spades pitching clubs. Now he has four spades and four hearts and a diamond ruff coming, so E/W cannot give him any other trick. He calls for the diamond king; West must win. If west now plays a club (ace or low, it doesn't matter) then the club king is trick ten. So west plays another diamond; let's say the nine. North covers with the jack, East covers with the queen, and South ruffs. North ruffs a club back to hand; his last cards are ♥8 ♦86 with South having nothing useful. East has ♦T3 and West has ♦7. North plays the ♦8 smothering the seven, forcing a diamond trick. If West had played the diamond seven instead of the nine, North would cover cheaply and come to an equivalent position.

True enough. The diamonds position gets you a 12th by force.

Care to try it by switching the beer and the ♦3?

[awm]

Phil, on 2012-July-01, 22:48, said:

True enough. The diamonds position gets you a 12th by force.

Care to try it by switching the beer and the ♦3?

Same basic line. After pulling trumps and pitching clubs on spades, diamond king. West must win, continues diamond nine. This is covered by jack and East wins. Now East has the superior diamonds (T7 over the 86) but he cannot cash of course. He must switch to a club, but you stick in the jack establishing a club trick (ruffing West's ace).

[Phil]

edit - nah - I keep seeing something here that isn't.

[JLOGIC]

1N?

[Phil]

JLOGIC, on 2012-July-02, 00:41, said:

1N?

It was Chris Larsen's client - do you prefer 1♣ with 44MM and a min 1N? I knew this was standard with a max 1N...

[gnasher]

I think it's a clear downgrade: it has no aces, tens or nines, and the high-card structure is pretty poor.

If it's a close decision, having both majors should push us towards opening a suit. That applies whether we're downgrading or upgrading.

[JLOGIC]

Phil, on 2012-July-02, 09:06, said:

It was Chris Larsen's client - do you prefer 1♣ with 44MM and a min 1N? I knew this was standard with a max 1N...

I prefer to have a hand worth 15-17, I don't really care about 4-4 majors.

I was kinda trolling though since I have posted that good players will basically never downgrade...I would definitely downgrade this hand if I held it, that was my only point.

[lalldonn]

I agree that the hand is a bad 15 but I'm shocked people wouldn't open 1NT, w/w in third seat at mps. Plus you obviously want to declare, you have K or KJ in every suit!

[JLOGIC]

lalldonn, on 2012-July-02, 16:40, said:

I agree that the hand is a bad 15 but I'm shocked people wouldn't open 1NT, w/w in third seat at mps. Plus you obviously want to declare, you have K or KJ in every suit!

Yes, playing it from your side is beneficial, but if partner is not transferring to a major I'd still rather have opened 1C. At least playing a 4-4 fit in 2M from the wrongside will be better than playing 1N or 4M or 3M from the right side imo. I just don't think it will be good if partner bids game unless they have 11, which goes back to me thinking this hand is bad.

w/w at MP in 3rd seat is always a consideration, but I'm really not that worried about the opponents competing effectively. I have not only a completely defensive hand, but I'm 4-4 in the majors and I get to start by picking off clubs.

[kwic]

rduran1216, on 2012-July-01, 21:59, said:

w can lead a club at the go, which will preserve declarers 4 losers. Good luck finding that lead though, this is the problem with deep finesse, you get alot of "well ok if u do that, sure" kind of results haha

Deep finess gives the tricks with the 52 cards known. For example, it won't make a finess with xx - AQx if the K is stiff behind.