[jillybean]

NV vs. V, 1st seat

T65, KQT432, K872, V

Playing Ogust, you have opened this 2H and partner has bid 2N enquiring about quality.
How do you respond?

edit: I know some will want to open 3H but you can't, bite me

[TWO4BRIDGE]

good hand .... good suit

good hand = 7 losers ( or less )

good suit = 2 of top 3 honors

[the_clown]

Thats a great hand for a 1st seat preempt at favourable. I would have opened 3H.

[jillybean]

the_clown, on 2012-June-03, 09:37, said:

Thats a great hand for a 1st seat preempt at favourable. I would have opened 3H.

Thats not the question, please don't derail my poll.

[awm]

I have definitions for these things.

Good suit = has play for one loser opposite xx; at V this should be > 50% play but at NV it doesn't have to be (since I open more lousy suits). This suit is good enough at NV, basically a finesse and a 3-2 break.
Good hand = maximum values; this 8-count is roughly in the middle, but the additional shape (3640) prompts me to show a max. If I had a flatter distribution with the same high cards I would show a good suit with min.

[Bbradley62]

Partly, it depends on your partnership agreements as to the requirements for a weak 2; "good" and "bad" are relative to those requirements. For example, if you play disciplined weak 2 openings, and require that they include 2 of the top 4 honors, this might not be a strong suit. (Without such a restriction, I agree with Don that it is standard to define a good suit as one including two of the top three honors.) If you play at Shady Pines and you card says that your weak 2 openings show 6-11HCP, then 6-8 would be weak and 9-11 would be strong. Those of us whose cards say 5-10 would define weak as 5-7 and strong as 8-10.

[Fluffy]

I bid 4♣ splinter, if not possible then good hand good suit obviously

[gszes]

since NVUL vs Vul requirements for suit quality border on nonexistent
(not to mention length) there is little doubt KQTxxx qualifies as a good suit.
Once you get lucky enough to have p bid 2n then your void makes your
hand VERY good. I agree wholeheartedly with the 4c bid mentioned
earlier which should say good suit good hand AND a short suit how much
more do you want p???????????????????? If you are hesitant to make
a 4c bid here then at least show good suit good hand and let p take it from
there (talk about how you really wanted to bid 4c later).

[hrothgar]

Good hand, good suit

As the clow says, consider how much worse the suit could be for a white versus red preempt

[jillybean]

4♣, I like it ! But my partner will have a heartattack

[aguahombre]

jillybean, on 2012-June-03, 13:52, said:

4♣, I like it ! But my partner will have a heartattack

I would probably have time to call the paramedics before she realizes I have five less clubs than shown by my 4C bid.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Fluffy, on 2012-June-03, 12:45, said:

I bid 4♣ splinter, if not possible then good hand good suit obviously

Here is an alternate way to show shortness ( developed by Bill Higgins... a poster here awhile back ) where Opener doesn't have to go beyond 3NT . [ He said didn't have any data as to its effectiveness ] .

2H/2S - 2NT!
??
.. 3C = Bad hand, bad suit [ minimum ]
.. 3D = Good hand ( or good suit ) w/ no shortness
.. 3H = Good hand ( or good suit ) w/Club shortness
.. 3S = Good hand ( or good suit ) w/ Diamond shortness
..3NT = Good hand ( or good suit ) w/shortness in the unbid Major

So, for this hand Opener would rebid 3H!

[hrothgar]

jillybean, on 2012-June-03, 13:52, said:

4♣, I like it ! But my partner will have a heartattack

Especially if they wanted to investigate 3N

[Cthulhu D]

If you're bickering with your partner about this, switch to Jeff Goldsmith's Ogust variation. His proposed response structure is

(over 3H)
	3C = 8 losers, normal or good hand.
	    3D relays
		3H = bad trumps
		3S = good trumps
	3D = 8 losers, bad hand
	3H = 9+ losers
	3S = 7 losers

http://www.jeff-gold...ystem/september

This is a 6 loser hand so it qualifies for 'best' response. As he points out in the notes this is handy if you have no idea how to evaluate your hand in the context of whatever horrible piece of junk you opened this time, but it also covers those cases were you and partner disagree about what qualifies as a weak 2 opener of various sorts.

[the hog]

Good suit good points of course.

[Zelandakh]

Trick question? The most common definition of a good suit is 2 of the top 3 honours and the next most common is 3 of the top 5 so this surely qualifies there. And how can this hand possibly be considered "bad" at green? We're towards the top end in terms of hcp and have great shape. Whether you are a bean counter or a distribution junky, or anywhere in-between the hand is good/good unless using some non-standard weak 2 bids. Would probably be a better question if playing split-range 2Ms...