[mgoetze]

IMP Teams.

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For reasons which are no longer really clear to me, I chose to double instead of overcalling 2♣. Given that we open about 95% of 11 HCP hands, what do you think partner has and what do you do?

[aguahombre]

Responsive doubles thru what???? Sounds like pard is 1-3-(4/5) if responder isn't strange.

How about x AXX QTXX KXXXX? Would pard open that one? Then there might be a few where they can make 4S red vs. white.

5♣ now, having already forgotten any concern about the original double.

[JLOGIC]

My biggest pet peeve (for no reason): People who overcall 2C with 2335 rather than X. Doubling is 1000 % better than 2C don't ever question yourself again!

Partner just has a good hand. He might have 2 aces and 1xxx for instance. I would pass, I have great defense, very balanced shape for a t/o X, and terrible offense.

[rmnka447]

I'm passing. After my double, partner had a chance to bid over 4 ♠ with likely no more than a stiff in ♠ and didn't. (It's also just possible pard might have a doubleton if responder bid 4 ♠ with 4 ♠s and 6 cards in another suit.)

Since partner didn't have an opener, double should show some decent values with no clear cut call over 4 ♠. If so, with my hand's values spread out between the 3 remaining suits, there's a decent chance that 4 ♠ can be beat. If not, -170 (+420 vs. -590, +620 vs. -790) isn't a completely unmitigated disaster.

[dkham]

Pass

[Statto]

I think partner is suggesting penalty, and with ♥K, ♦KJ, ♣AJ9 sitting over opener I see no reason to disagree.

[MrAce]

If you wanna take an action over 1♠ this hand doubles. Alternative is pass, not 2 ♣.

DBL of 4♠ is not penalty, of course. If pd had KQJT ♠ and out, he would not be able to DBL this 4♠. Too bad, but this is the price you pay for the long run. You can not even dbl with KQJT9 ♠ if one of them were joking. Since you can not dbl with those, this DBL is not penalty, eventhough pd expects us to pass most of the time. It shows a max of a passed hand and inability to bid at 5 level. That is that.

Aguaman surprised me, very much, by bidding with this 5332 hand at 5 level. I am really shocked, regardless of the result in this board i would think pass is auto.

[wank]

i wouldn't have doubled originally, though it's much better than 2c.

now obv i pass. bidding is very poor.

[bluecalm]

Quote

My biggest pet peeve (for no reason): People who overcall 2C with 2335 rather than X. Doubling is 1000 % better than 2C don't ever question yourself again!

I think it's not true opposite passed partner. The biggest argument for doubling is finding 5-3 fit when competing for a partscore/game. Pass from partner means he doesn't have 11+ with 5 carder basically and our best chances to compete are in clubs and game considerations are completely out, additionally weak directing + slight preemption goes for 2C.

[Quantumcat]

bluecalm, on 2012-May-21, 01:37, said:

I think it's not true opposite passed partner. The biggest argument for doubling is finding 5-3 fit when competing for a partscore/game. Pass from partner means he doesn't have 11+ with 5 carder basically and our best chances to compete are in clubs and game considerations are completely out, additionally weak directing + slight preemption goes for 2C.

Another reason for overcalling 2♣ instead of double, is if you are strong enough for two bids. In this case you will show more of your hand by bidding 2♣ then double as opposed to double then double.

E.g. (1♠) 2♣ (2♠) pass (pass) X
as opposed to (1♠) X (2♠) pass (pass) X

If you are only strong enough for one bid, then double shows more about your hand than 2♣.

[mgoetze]

But surely we agree that this hand is only worth one bid?

Anyway, I ****ed this up by bidding 5♣. Partner had two aces and ♠Qx, 4♠ was not making. Sorry, partner.

[Quantumcat]

The guy said it is NEVER right to bid 2♣ with 2335 - I was just responding to that as opposed to the actual thread. Sorry :-)

Replying to the actual thread:

Reasons for bidding:

1. You know you have a game and might not take enough undertricks to beat it
2. You are not sure of making game but are fairly sure 4♠ is making

Reasons for passing:

1. You are not sure your game is making but confident of some positive score out of 4♠
2. You are confident game is making but not slam, and are confident of getting sufficient undertricks out of 4♠ to cover your game

Reasons 1. and 2. for bidding are not applicable, because for 1. partner is a passed hand, and has a limit to his strength, so you can't be sure of game. And for 2., partner did not bid a suit, making all your short suits worth their full weight on defense. Your long suit has the Ace so it is very likely to be a trick. So you can be fairly confident of taking 4♠ off.

Reason 1. for passing is applicable, as above. Reason 2. isn't applicable since you are not sure of your game, BUT, on general principles, when they are red and you are white, if in doubt whether to defend or play, it is usually right to defend.

[phil_20686]

You just have to pass. I have a weak nt why do I want to play at the 5 level?

Dble the first time seems obvious to me. Pass a distant second, and 2C, is, well, I have nothing constructive to say about that.....

[gszes]

You have been reading the forums and the x stuck in
your head vs the (ick) 2c bid. WD You have a reasonable
defensive hand and p surely expects to take 2 tricks for
the x. At these colors it is hardly a strectch to think
you could have a fairly large gain here by passing.

Since p x vs bidding a suit (or 4n) you can expect p to
be fairly balanced and that makes your hand much better
for defense and much worse for offense. Sit tight and
hopefully enjoy the ride.


Now for the next thread what to lead:))))))))))))))))))))))))

[han]

Quantumcat, on 2012-May-22, 00:03, said:

The guy said it is NEVER right to bid 2♣ with 2335

Nobody said this.

[Quantumcat]

han, on 2012-May-29, 09:56, said:

Nobody said this.

JLOGIC, on 2012-May-20, 14:09, said:

My biggest pet peeve (for no reason): People who overcall 2C with 2335 rather than X. Doubling is 1000 % better than 2C don't ever question yourself again!

Partner just has a good hand. He might have 2 aces and 1xxx for instance. I would pass, I have great defense, very balanced shape for a t/o X, and terrible offense.

[JLOGIC]

Never is always too strong. AKQJx and out is fine to overcall 2C even if 5332. But it is very rare to me.

[Gerben42]

JLOGIC, on 2012-June-01, 23:07, said:

Never is always too strong. AKQJx and out is fine to overcall 2C even if 5332. But it is very rare to me.

Wow, without the 10? Reckless youth at work!

[Statto]

I would have bid 2♣ first time, which I think is better for finding 5-3 fits than X which tends to better at finding 4-4 fits.

[rogerclee]

Statto, on 2012-June-02, 03:13, said:

I would have bid 2♣ first time, which I think is better for finding 5-3 fits than X which tends to better at finding 4-4 fits.

The problem isn't the 5-3 fits, it's the 5-1 fits.