[writerman]

At pairs, you pick up the following hand:

S: KJxxx
H: AKxxx
D: xx
C: x

You open 1S and partner responds 3NT which, by agreement, shows "a full blooded raise to 4S". In other words, at least four card spade support, 13+ points but no singleton or void.

My question is, with this light opener do you sign off in 4S or are you duty bound to cue bid your first round control in hearts?

I guess this is a specific example of a more general question. If you are in a game forcing situation should you always initiate a cue bidding sequence if you have a control you can show below game or do you only do so if you have additional strength that makes you think you might be in the slam zone?

[jillybean]

Welcome to forums

I have an agreement to make a courtesy cue below game in any gf auction, and I like the agreement.
fwiw, I dislike your 1M 3N treatment, you have no useful room to cue bid. What do you use 1M:2N for?

[ArtK78]

There is nothing light about opening 1♠ on KJxxx AKxxx xx x. Slam will be cold opposite as little as AQxx QJx Axx xxx, which is certainly within partner's announced range. Slam will have reasonable play if partner has the same hand without the ♠Q.

This hand is certainly worth a 4♥ cue bid.

[Cyberyeti]

I more than dislike this treatment. Consider:

AQxx
QJx
Axx
xxx

A nice easy slam.

Now reverse the hearts and the clubs and you may not even be making 5. How the hell are you supposed to tell these apart by your methods ?

Edit: Haha, Art came up with the same hand while I was posting.

[Phil]

Hi Writerman, welcome to the forums.

If you are at the point in your development where you are asking whether or not you should be giving your partner a 'courtesy' cue, you are certainly ready for a better major suit raise structure than 1M - 3N.

Nevertheless, unless you are aware of some of the nuances of 2/1, then you'll still need an answer to your question. You can play that cues are 'courtesy' or they show extras and I prefer the latter. The former caters to responder having a very strong hand (which in a SAYC context partner might have made a strong jump shift) and needing to know certain features. The latter allows partner to keep exploring with extras himself.

Nevertheless, I would still cue with your hand. Even though its an 11 count, the hand has substantial playing strength opposite a GF four card raise. If partner signs off, I'm content, and I will not ashamed showing this nice 5-5 afterward if we go higher.

[Cyberyeti]

The other thing to consider, once you get a decent raise structure is "what do I cue". If your agreement is "first round controls before second" that's fine, although many people will just cue the lowest control and cue the stiff club. The advantage of this is that if you skip the club cue, and partner has two losing clubs, he will sign off in 4♠ regardless of how many other high cards he has knowing the slam isn't on.

[jillybean]

Cyberyeti, on 2012-May-11, 09:05, said:

The other thing to consider, once you get a decent raise structure is "what do I cue". If your agreement is "first round controls before second" that's fine, although many people will just cue the lowest control and cue the stiff club. The advantage of this is that if you skip the club cue, and partner has two losing clubs, he will sign off in 4♠ regardless of how many other high cards he has knowing the slam isn't on.

Doesn't "everyone" cue A,K,singleton,void feely below game?

[gszes]

cue bbiing is tough for many so congrats on a good post for first one.

First thing you need to understand that p will not bother with
a "full bodied spade raise" if their hand is good enough to take
control of the bidding immediately with a 4n (key card) bid.
The main purpose behind the 3n bid is to inform partner of a trump
fit and game going hand while limiting the hand potential to one
that cannot just take control. That means a dialog is about to
happen if slam is going to be reached. Bidding your lowest ranking
control starts the dialog (here that bid is 4c not 4h). Just
hearing about a club control might be enough to allow p to take
control of the bidding.

It is dangerous to bypass controls because that should deny control
and cause p to stop slam searching. It is aslo important because if
you bypass a suit and p continues cuebidding they promise at least
2nd round control of the suit you denied.

I also agree with the others that 1M-2N will serve you much better in
the long run than a jump to 3n which actually preempts your powerful
pair of hands and makes bidding more difficult.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2012-May-11, 09:09, said:

Doesn't "everyone" cue A,K,singleton,void feely below game?

I thought they did, but at least two posters above me have talked about cueing hearts.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

Remember when I said "Anything is better than Jacoby2NT ". I was wrong.

3NT is worse.

[MrAce]

writerman, on 2012-May-11, 06:17, said:

At pairs, you pick up the following hand:

S: KJxxx
H: AKxxx
D: xx
C: x

You open 1S and partner responds 3NT which, by agreement, shows "a full blooded raise to 4S". In other words, at least four card spade support, 13+ points but no singleton or void.

Well of course your pd may hold

AQxx
QJx
Axx
xxx

but he may also hold

Qxxx
xxx
AQJ
Axx which 5 level is not safe. And i didnt even put wasted hcps in ♣

But anyway, i think you need to cue but definetely not 4♥ as others suggested. Cues at 4 level doesnt have to be 1st round control. Imo you should start with 4♣ cue ( 1st or 2nd round control) this way;

1-Your pd doesnt sign off in 4 with the fear that you guys have 2 quick club losers when slam is cold.

2- 4 ♣ allows you to hear 4♦ from pd, if you dont hear this slam hopes are over. You safely play your game. If you hear 4♦ this allows you to cue 4♥ aand tell pd that you dont have the hand to take control eventhough your side has all the controls, some call it last train or whatever. This way pd knows you have mild slam interest, but definetely better hand than just signing off in game over 3NT.