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What is Responder's 4C double-jump ? What is "standard" meaning

#1 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 20:29

EDIT: side question ...see post # 8
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
2/1 system

1S - ( X ) - 4C = ??

Natural and weak, or splinter ?

This post has been edited by TWO4BRIDGE: 2012-May-02, 10:55

Don Stenmark
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#2 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 20:44

I play it as fit showing.
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#3 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2012-May-01, 20:54

Splinter. I don't know anyone that plays it as weak.
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#4 User is offline   the_clown 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 00:24

Fitjump for me, 4 card support and very good side suit.
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#5 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 04:11

Choose between a splinter (ITD) and fit-showing (jump in competition). Perhaps the choice of meaning might depend on whether the opponents are playing ELC.
(-: Zel :-)
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#6 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 07:03

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-May-02, 04:11, said:

Choose between a splinter (ITD) and fit-showing (jump in competition). Perhaps the choice of meaning might depend on whether the opponents are playing ELC.

Help me out on the shorthand:

ITD = ?

ELC = ?
Don Stenmark
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"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#7 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 07:24

Sorry! ITD = ignore the double; ELC = equal level conversion.
(-: Zel :-)
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#8 User is offline   TWO4BRIDGE 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 10:53

View Postthe_clown, on 2012-May-02, 00:24, said:

Fitjump for me, 4 card support and very good side suit.


For those who say a fit-showing-jump, what would a single-jump mean :

1S - ( X ) - 3C = ??
Don Stenmark
TWOferBRIDGE
"imo by far in bridge the least understood concept is how to bid over a jump-shift
( 1M-1NT!-3m-?? )." ....Justin Lall

" Did someone mention relays? " .... Zelandakh

K-Rex to Mikeh : " Sometimes you drive me nuts " .
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#9 User is offline   mikeh 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 12:06

To me would be splinter.

I like 3OM to be undefined splinter, and thus 4 level is void splinter, but absent that agreement, 4♣ is just a routine splinter.

While I use a modified bergen wo competition, I prefer to use fit showing jumps to 3 minor.

I can see pros and cons for splinter or fit-showing for 4♣, if your partnership feels that 3 level jumps are better used for other purposes.

Thus I think the answer is: it means whatever you and partner agree, and that such agreement has to include a coherent 2 and 3 and 4 level structure.

In a casual expert partnership, I would assume splinter
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 14:44

I normally play both 3♣ and 4♣ as fit jumps. 4♣ says that you want to bid to the four-level; 3♣ says that you don't.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   FrancesHinden 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 14:56

I normally play both 3♣ and 4♣ as fit jumps. 4♣ says you want to pre-empt to the four level with a club suit on the side (you can double next round with extra offence). 3♣ either says you don't want to drive the 4-level or has sound limit raise values and will double/bid game next round to show defence.
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#12 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2012-May-02, 15:23

On reflection, I think I play what Frances said. 4♣ will always be fairly distributional, so there must be some more balanced hands that bid 3♣ and then have another go.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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