[bd71]

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Teams. 2/1. Cue-bidding approach is 1st or 2nd round controls. 3♦ merely confirms fit and invites cue-bidding. 4♦ would set trump and demand cue-bidding. Parnter would only have bid 3N (rather than 2N) with a bare minimum opener (agreement is that we will open somewhat light, including many 11s).

1. How slam positive are you?

2. How do you plan to approach the bidding? In particular, how to assess if there are wasted values in either spades or clubs?

[menggq]

East 3♦ confirm ♦...

[CSGibson]

does opener tend to have longer clubs than diamonds, or would he bid this way with 5-4 either way? That actually impacts my decision greatly. If my expectation is that partner is 1-3-5-4 with a non-minimum, I'd be inclined to bid 4♦ & go from there. If partner can also have 1-3-4-5 with a high frequency, I'd probably just bid 3♦.

By the way, I am discounting 2-2-5-4 and 1-4-4-4 shapes because I believe (with a heart stop) that opener would tend to treat the first as balanced, either opening or rebidding NT, and that with the 2nd that partner would bid out his shape with 3♥ over 2♥. If either assumption is incorrect, then my plan may change a bit.

[bd71]

CSGibson, on 2012-April-16, 02:24, said:

does opener tend to have longer clubs than diamonds, or would he bid this way with 5-4 either way? That actually impacts my decision greatly. If my expectation is that partner is 1-3-5-4 with a non-minimum, I'd be inclined to bid 4♦ & go from there. If partner can also have 1-3-4-5 with a high frequency, I'd probably just bid 3♦.

By the way, I am discounting 2-2-5-4 and 1-4-4-4 shapes because I believe (with a heart stop) that opener would tend to treat the first as balanced, either opening or rebidding NT, and that with the 2nd that partner would bid out his shape with 3♥ over 2♥. If either assumption is incorrect, then my plan may change a bit.

So if you go this route and cue bidding commwences, what is going to make you want to bid slam? Obviously partner will need a heart control, so 4H from him is a must or we sign off in 5D. But is the heart control enough for you to keycard? Or would you continue cueing? How do you feel after 4D-4H-4S-5C? If partners club control is the ace, this is nice, but the king and/or all other lower club honor's could be wasted.

In response to your question, partner could be 1345, but probably cant hold every such 1345 permutation as there are some he would bid/rebid clubs and some he would bid clubs/NT.

[ahydra]

Yet another reason to play 4SF as always game forcing, rather than INV+ at the 2-level? 3D is ideal here if you're sure it's forcing. Judging by the OP, it's what I'd bid.

As for slam, I'm not so enthusiastic given this is teams. Perhaps I'll make 1 slam try then give up (or give up straight away if partner can't cue in hearts). Suppose partner has a better-than-minimum Qx Ax Jxxxx AKxx, slam is good. But change those clubs to KQJx or the spades to xx and it's not good at all.

ahydra

[mike777]

bd71, on 2012-April-15, 20:47, said:

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Teams. 2/1. Cue-bidding approach is 1st or 2nd round controls. 3♦ merely confirms fit and invites cue-bidding. 4♦ would set trump and demand cue-bidding. Parnter would only have bid 3N (rather than 2N) with a bare minimum opener (agreement is that we will open somewhat light, including many 11s).

1. How slam positive are you?

2. How do you plan to approach the bidding? In particular, how to assess if there are wasted values in either spades or clubs?

fwiw I would start with a gf raise in d(3c art gf for me) and set trumps...later I hope to bid 5c exclusion bw, if possible.


given OP I will start with 3d over 2nt ..

will rebid 4d if pard rebids 3nt.

[CSGibson]

What do we need for slam to be good? AK A in clubs and hearts and 5 diamonds would be awesome, I've got all sorts of chances in that scenario. If partner bids 4♥, I'm not going to bid 4♠ - I'm just keycarding. I don't want to exclude clubs, because that club ace rates to be useful. opposite 1 keycard, we'll play 5♦, opposite 2 we'll play 6. Again, assuming that parter rates to have 5 diamonds (because if he has a non-minimum opening, why is he bidding his 4 card diamond suit first when he has no values there, and some in clubs). Mind you, I'm going to miss grand slam opposite A AKx Jxxxx Kxxx. I'm ok with it, it's not going to be any easier to bid at other tables.

The problem with more delicate approaches is that partner's going to look at his diamond suit and blanch. We really need to hit him over the head and take control to emphasize these slam prospects.