[mikl_plkcc]

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If at the 1st/2nd seat, I would certainly open 1D to see the situation. At the 4th seat, I opened 5D, hoping it would make. The result was -1, however, half of the field made.

What's your preference on opening shapely hand at the 4th seat?

[phil_20686]

This just looks like a 3N bid to me.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

Opening 5D is ok, but so is 1D, and for that I did vote.

I have nothing against 3NT, but partner wont have a clue, when to pass 3NT,
when to move.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikl_plkcc]

phil_20686, on 2012-April-02, 06:02, said:

This just looks like a 3N bid to me.

Gambling 3NT? but there is an outside ace!

[Quantumcat]

Easier if you have no agreements about "gambling" 3NT - you just open it when you think you might make it, and having the opponents bid could be detrimental. Here you have a decent shot at making it, so you open it. Partner might have a card or two in the majors, and anyway the opponents don't find the magic lead EVERY time there is one...

[mikl_plkcc]

Quantumcat, on 2012-April-03, 00:24, said:

Easier if you have no agreements about "gambling" 3NT - you just open it when you think you might make it, and having the opponents bid could be detrimental. Here you have a decent shot at making it, so you open it. Partner might have a card or two in the majors, and anyway the opponents don't find the magic lead EVERY time there is one...

but the responses to a "normal" 3NT and a "gambling" 3NT are very different. With 0 HCPs, you will pass after a normal 3NT, but will bid 4C after a gambling 3NT.

[Fluffy]

I have more shape than opponents, so the hand should belong to us. This is not always the case since some combined shape between opponents can bring them to more tricks then me if they have 5-4 or 5-5 fit with cross singleton, but its a good bet.

I would open 1♦ and rebid 3NT if they fail to bid, they won't have a biddable 5 card suit so my 9 tricks in 3NT are a favourite to cash. If the bidding gets competitive we can always bid more diamonds later.

[phil_20686]

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-April-02, 08:31, said:

Gambling 3NT? but there is an outside ace!

I assume this is a joke?

The idea that it should be a pure hand is to that partner can judge correctly when he has a good hand. When he has already passed you can (and should) be more flexible.

I have nothing against the 1d-3N route suggested by fluffy, except that it may not be systemically available, I am just not that sure what I am hoping to gain? Slam looks far away and there is every chance that if partner responds 1M it helps them to lead the other major which might easily be bad for you. Hence I just dump 3N and hope for the best.

[phil_20686]

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-April-03, 00:38, said:

but the responses to a "normal" 3NT and a "gambling" 3NT are very different. With 0 HCPs, you will pass after a normal 3NT, but will bid 4C after a gambling 3NT.

I would love to know what a "normal" 3N opener looks like? Is it the 20-22 that you open 2N? Or the 23-24 that you open 2C?

Quite a lot of people play that its just a 18-19 hand with a trick source or something, but I have plenty of good ways to bid these hands. ALso, on the given hand i have a 14 count and both of the opposition passed so its impossible for partner to have a zero count. If partner puts down nothing but a major suit ace you would be pretty happy to be in 3N.

[broze]

People are always explaining their 2♣ openers as "xHCP or 9+ playing tricks." If this isn't one of those 9+ playing trick hands then what is? Is there any point in opening 2♣?

[phil_20686]

broze, on 2012-April-03, 06:01, said:

People are always explaining their 2♣ openers as "xHCP or 9+ playing tricks." If this isn't one of those 9+ playing trick hands then what is? Is there any point in opening 2♣?

Generally 2C openers work best when there is very limited information that you need to get from partner about his hand, and when you are envisaging a slam. In this case you are missing the spade the heart ace, and you will need at least one K. Most experts will open AAK so slam is looking far away. Also, in practice, if you open 2C you are committing yourself to playing in diamonds, as most of the continuations that would describe your hand go past 3N.

If you added the heart K, then this would be a reasonable 2C opener, mostly because you are now seeing slam opposite normal passed hands.

[mikl_plkcc]

phil_20686, on 2012-April-03, 05:13, said:

I would love to know what a "normal" 3N opener looks like? Is it the 20-22 that you open 2N? Or the 23-24 that you open 2C?

Quite a lot of people play that its just a 18-19 hand with a trick source or something, but I have plenty of good ways to bid these hands. ALso, on the given hand i have a 14 count and both of the opposition passed so its impossible for partner to have a zero count. If partner puts down nothing but a major suit ace you would be pretty happy to be in 3N.

"Normal 3NT" : 25-27 HCPs, balanced

[bftboy]

Surely 3nt in 4th position means something different than it means in the first 3 positions, just as opening 2 or 3 of a suit has a different meaning in 4th position. P ought to infer a hand something like the one I have, i.e, I expect to make 3nt with a long running minor if has a bit of something, and he should pull if he doesn't. With solid diamonds and no ♣ A I'd open 3♦ and hope P could bid 3nt.

[phil_20686]

mikl_plkcc, on 2012-April-04, 08:55, said:

"Normal 3NT" : 25-27 HCPs, balanced

Short answer: No.

If you polled this board, I doubt anyone would think a 3N opener shows this in any seat or vul.

I would guess gambling 3NT is the default for most, with a strong minority playing it as a good 4M bid.

[BillPatch]

phil_20686, on 2012-April-05, 03:54, said:

Short answer: No.

If you polled this board, I doubt anyone would think a 3N opener shows this{25-27 HCP} in any seat or vul.

I would guess gambling 3NT is the default for most, with a strong minority playing it as a good 4M bid.

Yellow Card has 25-27, and since they shut down their board I suspect some of them migrated here. I have
heard it is still played on BBO.

[blackshoe]

The purpose of preempting is to interfere with opponents' bidding when you think it may be their hand. Here, you don't need to preempt. You can pass. If it's their hand, you get a good board. OTOH, you have a full opening bid (14 HCP, 3 QTs, 4 losers). I would open 1♦, planning to jump to 3 or 4 diamonds at my next turn unless partner bids some number of NT, when I might now jump to 3NT. For me, this is not a 3NT opener in any seat.

[BillPatch]

The title of the poll is "to open a game". Opening a game is a reasonable option. OP
chose the wrong game. If the question were what to bid in 4th seat 1♦ might
have been considered more favorably. If we assume OP had a particular bridge reason to
bid game based on game conditions(score, opponents, etc.)that favors 3NT.

Of course, if the gambling NT is not on the convention card, it would no longer be
a relavant option.

[Vampyr]

bftboy, on 2012-April-04, 11:42, said:

Surely 3nt in 4th position means something different than it means in the first 3 positions, just as opening 2 or 3 of a suit has a different meaning in 4th position.

Quite. I would have thought that when playing Gambling 3NT, fourth-seat 3NT openers should not be removed.

[phil_20686]

Vampyr, on 2012-April-07, 08:25, said:

Quite. I would have thought that when playing Gambling 3NT, fourth-seat 3NT openers should not be removed.

Most people who play gambling nt, just play that in 4th seat 3N shows a hand that wants to play 3N. This normally amounts to a dirty gambling 3N opener. I mean for sure you should open 3N with Kx QJx K AKJxxxx, say, slam looks far away, but it will be tough to describe this hand or stop out of gam if partner responds to 1d.

The op hand is just fin to open 3N on imo. Even if its technically a bad spot, opps can lead the wrong thing etc.

There are just lots of these hands based around a long minor that basically always want to play 3N opposite a passed hand. My gambling 3N openers were equally dirty in third seat, but I have since stopped playing that convention.