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Kapln Inversion Experience at the table

#1 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 22:53

Been actually trying out Kaplan Inversion in ACBL Mid-chart events and it's been more of a problem than I anticipated. I've often encountered a simple and very effective defense:1-1-(X) showing spades--fourth hand doubles on crap with spades that would pass 1-1NT forcing. Have others run into similar experiences with KI? I now wonder if the tradeoffs are worth it and I'd like to hear from other more expert players.
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#2 User is offline   wank 

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Posted 2012-February-01, 23:13

play 1 blued on a 3-3 fit a few times and the opps will start to behave
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#3 User is offline   phil_20686 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 05:28

View Postmikestar13, on 2012-February-01, 22:53, said:

Been actually trying out Kaplan Inversion in ACBL Mid-chart events and it's been more of a problem than I anticipated. I've often encountered a simple and very effective defense:1-1-(X) showing spades--fourth hand doubles on crap with spades that would pass 1-1NT forcing. Have others run into similar experiences with KI? I now wonder if the tradeoffs are worth it and I'd like to hear from other more expert players.


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#4 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 10:57

Played it for quite a while now. Love it.

Getting across the length of the 5 card spade suit in one hit is worth far more than the rare times you get problems. If RHO is going to X 1 to show spades, the chances are he is also going to double a non-KI 1NT to show spades.

I have a regular other partner who does not like KI, and we sometimes find ourselves making the wrong guess when responder has 5.
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#5 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 11:00

View Postwank, on 2012-February-01, 23:13, said:

play 1 blued on a 3-3 fit a few times and the opps will start to behave

It will be a 4-3 fit on a good day.
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#6 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 12:13

I remember a top player [Martel?] saying he didn't like KI for this reason. I am unconvinced, many bid 1H-P-1N-2S fairly aggressively, and as Wank says, doubling 1S isn't risk free.

Personally, I don't like KI because I think the extra space is more important when responder shows spades than when responder denies spades, although it is somewhat system dependent - KI makes sense if you play Flannery, for example.
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#7 User is offline   Gerben42 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 12:38

No, KI doesn't play sense when you play Flannery as you don't need it (1 already shows 5 cards).

I play it whilst not playing Flannery and I like it. I really dislike 1 - 1N with 4522 hands.

Times that opponents have used 1 p 1 X to their advantage so far: Zero. Besides if you respond light there is an advantage taking 1NT away from them in the auction 1 - 1N. Opener can bid 2 or even 3 MUCH more often after a 4th seat Dbl (which cannot show a strong NT and both minors at the same time)
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#8 User is offline   Free 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 12:41

I've played it, didn't have that much trouble with it.
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#9 User is offline   MickyB 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 15:24

View PostGerben42, on 2012-February-02, 12:38, said:

No, KI doesn't play sense when you play Flannery as you don't need it (1 already shows 5 cards).


Fair enough, I see you have put more thought into the matter than I have B-)
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#10 User is offline   JLOGIC 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 17:26

Most people seem to play over KI that X=takeout of hearts anyways, despite our recommended defense being X=spades, 1N=takeout of hearts (in fact, my partner recommends that, I think having a natural 1N overcall against us is more important). But the same thing applies anyways, it's nice to be able to screw them when they have a natural 1N overcall and you can steal with 1H p 1N in standard. I mean, yes it's a downside of KI, I don't remember losing any boards because of it but it's possible I forgot. I can't imagine it's a huge deal.
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#11 User is offline   mikestar13 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 18:25

Thanks everyone. Perhaps I've run into some opps who are over-conservative with their 2 overcalls in 1-1NTF sequences and it has skewed my results.
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#12 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 18:35

The upside of KI are just so huge that even if you did hit a bad run and lose a couple of board you will all win them back in a fairly short time IMO. esp at MP.
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#13 User is offline   bluecalm 

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Posted 2012-February-02, 18:59

I've never played that.
I am curious what is the standard way to bid after 1.
One system I saw is that 1NT is Hxx or four of them and otherwise you bid 2m (or 2D with 2-5-3-3 and 2C natural or strong or w/e). In such system I really don't like bypassing 1NT. I imagine it's not a problem at imps but what about MP's ? Or maybe there are other solutions to this problem ?
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#14 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-February-03, 12:01

View Postbluecalm, on 2012-February-02, 18:59, said:

I've never played that.
I am curious what is the standard way to bid after 1.
One system I saw is that 1NT is Hxx or four of them and otherwise you bid 2m (or 2D with 2-5-3-3 and 2C natural or strong or w/e). In such system I really don't like bypassing 1NT. I imagine it's not a problem at imps but what about MP's ? Or maybe there are other solutions to this problem ?

My way is probably not standard, but I like to ignore minor holdings (playing an artificial 2 anyway), and concentrate on the majors. Similar to yours above, but reverse the NT/ meanings.
1NT = any 12-14 without something to say in the majors
2 = most 15+ hands, those not qualifying for a specific bid > 2
2 = 4 spades
2 = 6 hearts
So I don't bypass 1NT, which is a useful natural bid. Of course it's all a matter of judgement. With a low side suit doubleton and a good Hxx there's nothing to stop you treating it as 4 spades.

Incidentally, you could say that another advantage of KI is that you can play in 1NT more often.
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#15 User is offline   Poky 

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Posted 2012-February-19, 14:05

Excellent convention!

Never met a problem after 1-pass-1.

Just make it sure 1 is up to 11 HCP (bidding 2 with a balanced hand containing spades).
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#16 User is offline   fromageGB 

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Posted 2012-February-20, 07:48

View PostPoky, on 2012-February-19, 14:05, said:

Just make it sure 1 is up to 11 HCP (bidding 2 with a balanced hand containing spades).

Are you saying responder initially replies 2 with a 12 count? I am happy to reply 1 with game hands (it is forcing), not just up to 11, and use a possibly artificial 2-bid for the 16+ hands, but the strength limits of your 1 has little bearing on the efficacy of using KI : a worthwhile swap.
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