[dwar0123]

Curious what type of hand north(me) described and what you would bid with south's hand.

---

Thanks

[Phil]

4♥ shows just south of a 2♣ opener. Considering I have two nice cards and some fillers for partner, I would make another move.

[JLOGIC]

4H shows a little bit too good to open 4H, something like xx KQJTxxx AJxx --- would definitely qualify or x QJT9xxxx Ax AJ.

[aguahombre]

Opener (you) seem to be showing a hand with 7 hearts and a KNR of around 19.

5C now, as responder would be fine, and let partner make the next mistake. I don't like the 1S response with L.R. in hearts and everything but spade values, but that wasn't asked.

[MrAce]

I play this 4♥ exactly as Justin said.

[dwar0123]

Thanks, I love clearing up these many tiny misunderstandings in my understandings of auctions. In this case I was wrong and partner was right!

Cheers.

[aguahombre]

The difference of opinion might be affected by whether the pair is using a forcing club system.

[jillybean]

I assume you are playing std? Playing 2/1 I respond 2♣ / 1♥

[aguahombre]

Playing 2/1 I usually wait for a G.F. responding hand to bid 2/1. That one has a KNR of 10.7 and a LTC of 8, putting it in the game invitation range.

But, regardless of whether I would have tried a forcing NT with the 3-card limit raise, the real question was what the 4H rebid by opener showed. There is a split between those who believe it shows a minimum with seven hearts (with which we would rebid 3H) and those who believe it is a 7-bagger with just below 2C opening strength.

Opposite the first one, we would have to pass 4H; opposite the second one, it seems right to make a bit of a slam move with 5C.

BTW, "KNR" is the Kaplan/Rubens hand evaluation calculator...and LTC refers to another guide to evaluation called Losing Trick Count. This is for those reading the forum who might be curious about the jargon.

[Charlie Yu]

Pass now, not enough control to continue. I expect this sequence to show around 3 keycards.

[gwnn]

JLOGIC, on 2012-February-01, 17:36, said:

4H shows a little bit too good to open 4H, something like xx KQJTxxx AJxx --- would definitely qualify or x QJT9xxxx Ax AJ.

Didn't you use to play this as a strong two-ish hand?

[Zelandakh]

You need a bid to show a 1-suited hand that is too strong to rebid 3♥. Traditionally that bid was 4♥ but it is also possible to show this hand artificially. If you do show the hand artificially then 4♥ is instead what Justin said, in essence a hand that wants to goto 4♥ on shape rather than power. Undiscussed I would tend to assume the stronger type though, especially playing opposite a random B/I player.

For your rebid, if partner is showing the distributional hand type then you have a clear pass. If partner is showing the strong hand type then I think you are worth a 5♣ rebid. Should I be scared to agree with the agua-man? or should he be scared!

[ahydra]

If we are going to make a slam try, 5C is a good bid here - encouraging partner to show a diamond control.

Let's try "Culbertson's Perfect Minimum" - construct the minimum hand needed for slam to be good, and see if it's at the bottom of partner's range:

A
A10xxxxxx
Kx
Kx

That's a minimum 4H bid (some might even bid only 3), so partner should have enough to make slam and we should bid 5C.

If playing 5 card majors, start with 4H/2NT (Jacoby) or a very conservative 3H - "support with support" is a good motto.

ahydra

[phil_20686]

Phil, on 2012-February-01, 17:30, said:

4♥ shows just south of a 2♣ opener. Considering I have two nice cards and some fillers for partner, I would make another move.

is this a joke? Sometimes I dont understand your american humour.

[han]

It's definitely spelled American humor and although Phil is a very funny man, I suspect that this one was unintentional.

I know that this is the BI forum but 1S on this hand also strikes me as really wrong.

[phil_20686]

han, on 2012-February-02, 10:17, said:

It's definitely spelled American humor and although Phil is a very funny man, I suspect that this one was unintentional.

Lies. For I am English, and mine is the spelling that matters, Colonial Heathen.

[aguahombre]

phil_20686, on 2012-February-02, 11:07, said:

Lies. For I am English, and mine is the spelling that matters, Colonial Heathen.

Did you have to borrow the spelling from the neighbor because there is no equivalent word where you are?

[phil_20686]

aguahombre, on 2012-February-02, 11:30, said:

Did you have to borrow the spelling from the neighbor because there is no equivalent word where you are?

Indeed, it came across with the Romans courtesy of Hellenic Medicine. It was one of the oldest stable spellings in the English Language before you corrupted it .

[Phil]

phil_20686, on 2012-February-02, 05:37, said:

is this a joke? Sometimes I dont understand your american humour.

Well, I've never thought Benny Hill or Michael Palin were that funny either

My interpretation of the auction has matched what the bid meant for about the first 60 years of bridge. Only in recent history did someone state that it shows a hand with minimum HCP and a lot of playing strength and for many players, I would expect this to be normal. However in my partnerships, I still like it to be strong. This way, I do not have to hold my breath with a 3♥ rebid, and I do not have to invent a SJS on a fragment in order to create a force. I also don't have to start opening an 18 counts with 8 tricks 2♣, just to be able to play these methods.

In the actual auction, both opponents have passed. Who am I trying to preempt? Do I really expect to make 4♥ with the 2740 when partner cannot move over 2♥? I mean, if thats what your hand evaluation says, then go for it, but I don't think the hand is a game bid myself.

I agree with Han about not bidding 1♠ with this hand. I also can see myself opening the subject hand 4♥ fwiw.

[Bbradley62]

aguahombre, on 2012-February-01, 22:20, said:

BTW, "KNR" is the Kaplan/Rubens hand evaluation calculator... and LTC refers to another guide to evaluation called Losing Trick Count. This is for those reading the forum who might be curious about the jargon.

Are these tools frequently employed by B/I players?