Help
If the bidding is:
1NT* - (Pass) - 2♦ - (Double)
2NT** - (4♦) - Pass?
* 15-17
** breaking the transfer with max
Is the pass from partner forcing here?
Regards
Page 1 of 1
Pass Forcing? Bidding
#2
- Andy Bowles
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 11,993
- Joined: 2007-May-03
- Gender:Male
- Location:London, UK
Posted 2011-November-22, 03:47
No. We could have 17 opposite 0.
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
#4
- Group: Full Members
- Posts: 439
- Joined: 2011-November-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Yorba Linda, CA
- Interests:magic, horseback riding, hiking, camping, F1 racing, bridge, mathematics, finance, teaching
Posted 2011-November-22, 08:24
Agreed: we haven't committed to (or even suggested) even a game contract, so we cannot make a forcing pass.
BCIII
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
"If you're driving [the Honda S2000] with the top up, the storm outside had better have a name."
Simplify the complicated side; don't complify the simplicated side.
#5
- Tubthumper
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 2,835
- Joined: 2007-July-11
- Gender:Male
- Location:Portland, OR, USA
- Interests:Bridge, pool, financial crime. New experiences, new people.
Posted 2011-November-22, 09:04
My own rule is that if there is any doubt, pass is not forcing. Fortunately, on this hand there is no doubt, since responder has not shown any values.
Chris Gibson
#6
- mmm Duvel
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 10,728
- Joined: 2003-July-30
- Gender:Male
- Location:Belgium
- Interests:Duvel, Whisky
Posted 2011-November-22, 09:55
Not in a million years. Similar to turning your computer off and on again when it crashes, the first thing you need to consider to decide if a pass is forcing or not is if partner has promissed any values. This probably solves 90% of the FP questions on this forum. 
"It may be rude to leave to go to the bathroom, but it's downright stupid to sit there and piss yourself" - blackshoe
#7
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 13,027
- Joined: 2005-June-15
- Gender:Male
- Location:Canada
- Interests:Bridge, golf, wine (red), cooking, reading eclectically but insatiably, travelling, making bad posts.
Posted 2011-November-22, 10:19
To me, the question is: how far was the partnership forced before the opps' last bid?
Here, 2N forced to the 3-level. That means the opps cannot play undoubled below 3♥.
They are higher than 3♥.
Therefore they can play undoubled and we can pass.
While fp scenarios can be complex (you should see Kokish's notes on fp!), most situations can be encompassed in a few rules and the rule that in sequences in which we have established a force to a certain level, opposition action beyond that level doesn't create a fp is a basic and easily remembered approach.
Edit: without detracting from the foregoing, this particular auction might well NOT be forcing even over 3♦ for the reasons given by others.....partner hasn't shown any values at all. The rule I describe above should only apply when the partnership has shown the values to force to a certain level. Oh well, I did say that fp scenarios can be complex.
Here, 2N forced to the 3-level. That means the opps cannot play undoubled below 3♥.
They are higher than 3♥.
Therefore they can play undoubled and we can pass.
While fp scenarios can be complex (you should see Kokish's notes on fp!), most situations can be encompassed in a few rules and the rule that in sequences in which we have established a force to a certain level, opposition action beyond that level doesn't create a fp is a basic and easily remembered approach.
Edit: without detracting from the foregoing, this particular auction might well NOT be forcing even over 3♦ for the reasons given by others.....partner hasn't shown any values at all. The rule I describe above should only apply when the partnership has shown the values to force to a certain level. Oh well, I did say that fp scenarios can be complex.
'one of the great markers of the advance of human kindness is the howls you will hear from the Men of God' Johann Hari
#8
- VIP Member
-
- Group: Advanced Members
- Posts: 6,971
- Joined: 2009-November-14
- Gender:Male
- Location:Houston, TX
Posted 2011-November-23, 00:11
mikeh, on 2011-November-22, 10:19, said:
To me, the question is: how far was the partnership forced before the opps' last bid?
Here, 2N forced to the 3-level. That means the opps cannot play undoubled below 3♥.
They are higher than 3♥.
Therefore they can play undoubled and we can pass.
While fp scenarios can be complex (you should see Kokish's notes on fp!), most situations can be encompassed in a few rules and the rule that in sequences in which we have established a force to a certain level, opposition action beyond that level doesn't create a fp is a basic and easily remembered approach.
Edit: without detracting from the foregoing, this particular auction might well NOT be forcing even over 3♦ for the reasons given by others.....partner hasn't shown any values at all. The rule I describe above should only apply when the partnership has shown the values to force to a certain level. Oh well, I did say that fp scenarios can be complex.
Here, 2N forced to the 3-level. That means the opps cannot play undoubled below 3♥.
They are higher than 3♥.
Therefore they can play undoubled and we can pass.
While fp scenarios can be complex (you should see Kokish's notes on fp!), most situations can be encompassed in a few rules and the rule that in sequences in which we have established a force to a certain level, opposition action beyond that level doesn't create a fp is a basic and easily remembered approach.
Edit: without detracting from the foregoing, this particular auction might well NOT be forcing even over 3♦ for the reasons given by others.....partner hasn't shown any values at all. The rule I describe above should only apply when the partnership has shown the values to force to a certain level. Oh well, I did say that fp scenarios can be complex.
MikeH, should i take your explenation as
1♠-(3♥-4♥-(5♥)
pass is not forcing for you since opener was forced to only 4♠ ?
I dont play it this way, but i didnt write this to disagree, just trying to make sure if i understood you correctly.
"Genius has its own limitations, however stupidity has no such boundaries!"
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
"It's only when a mosquito lands on your testicles that you realize there is always a way to solve problems without using violence!"
"Well to be perfectly honest, in my humble opinion, of course without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter in a different perspective and without being condemning of one's view's and by trying to make it objectified, and by considering each and every one's valid opinion, I honestly believe that I completely forgot what I was going to say."
Page 1 of 1