[FrancesHinden]

---

I'll explain the auction to date in some detail, because you may not be used to these methods.

2D is about 2-8 HCP and shows (exactly) a 5-card weak two in a major. Virtually any hand in range will open, suit quality is not a constraint, the only thing that will stop this toy being used is if the hand is too good.

Over 2D partner could have:
- doubled to show 13-15 (semi-)balanced or various strong hands
- bid 2H/2S/2NT/3C/3D natural constructive
- bid 3H/3S/3NT natural and strong
- bid 4C/4D two suited clubs+linked major
- passed on all weak hands
- passed on a pure take-out double of one of the majors anything up to a decent 17-count

Responder's pass of 2D is either
- long diamonds, could be weak, but could have a decent hand that just thinks this is the best place to play (long diamonds, no 4-card majors);or
- any weak hand that doesn't care if 2D ends the auction (opener is not invited to compete in diamonds)

Your double is any hand without an obvious other bid that doesn't want to pass out 2D. Partner will treat it systemically as a take-out double of diamonds (so lebensohl applies e.g. a jump to 3M is natural invitational with 5, a cue is game forcing etc) but it is known that you may not be the traditional t/o double shape.

Partner's 4H suggests playing in 4H.

Now what, if anything. As a special favour I've told you in the poll what your potential bids would mean, and you are pretty confident about these.

[MrAce]

I'd pass Frances. Not that i am confident with my decision but thats what i would do at the table. Guessing pd has something like xxxx QJxxxxx x x or xxx KJxxxxx xx x.

I mean one of those hand where he could not bid earlier due to being weak. after all you suggest that 3♦ as a cue was available for him b4 he bid 4♥.

[awm]

I will bid 5♥. I think partner has some hand with 6-7♥ which was a bit short of overcalling at the two-level. It seems to me that hand like the following qualify and give great play for a slam:

♠xx
♥KQJxxx
♦xx
♣Kxx

♠xx
♥AKxxxxx
♦xx
♣xx

MrAce's slightly worse hands qualify too, but I think I have reasonable five-level safety opposite them (and I don't think they accept a 5♥ invite).

[MrAce]

 awm, on 2011-May-31, 14:17, said:

I will bid 5♥. I think partner has some hand with 6-7♥ which was a bit short of overcalling at the two-level. It seems to me that hand like the following qualify and give great play for a slam:

♠xx
♥KQJxxx
♦xx
♣Kxx

♠xx
♥AKxxxxx
♦xx
♣xx

MrAce's slightly worse hands qualify too, but I think I have reasonable five-level safety opposite them (and I don't think they accept a 5♥ invite).

You are right that 5 level still looks safe, but i am not sure if my pd would take that 5♥ as general slam try. So at least i know my pd will almost always pass 5♥ due to lack of ♠ control. (Btw, i am definetely overcalling with your 1st hand, i know its a stretch but life aint perfect after preempt, especially a multi 2dia)

[BunnyGo]

I think pass is slightly pessimistic as the example hands awm posted are quite possible. I'm not sure the best way to explore, but as the key information seems to be trump quality (AKQ of hearts) I think the best way to explore is RKC. <ducks the barrage from posters below>

[awm]

 BunnyGo, on 2011-May-31, 14:21, said:

I think pass is slightly pessimistic as the example hands awm posted are quite possible. I'm not sure the best way to explore, but as the key information seems to be trump quality (AKQ of hearts) I think the best way to explore is RKC. <ducks the barrage from posters below>

While I don't think RKC is terrible, I believe partner will almost always have good trumps here since he knows we don't promise much of a fit. My concern is that the seventh trump and/or side king (or queen) is potentially a huge card. If partner shows one keycard+queen or two keycards w/o queen (both of which seem very likely), slam could easily be a laydown or have virtually no play and I won't know what to do.

[MrAce]

Pd rates to hold more than 2♠ most of the time by the way. It is very likely he holds 4 of them imo.



Awm the hands you suggest looks like needed to start with a cue, and bidding 4♥. Especially #1. I think cue followed by 4♥ says he has long ♥ and barely missed to overcall in first round while direct 4♥ shows weaker but shapely hands. What do you think ?

[MrAce]

Looking at first 4 replies, i am pretty confident this will be a HOT topic

[whereagles]

Pass. You can't have it all and this could be our last stop, e.g. you might find

xxxx
AQxxx
x
Kxx

across.

[Cyberyeti]

 whereagles, on 2011-June-01, 00:07, said:

Pass. You can't have it all and this could be our last stop, e.g. you might find

xxxx
AQxxx
x
Kxx

across.

No, this can be bid with 3♦ or 2N then 3♦ or 4♦ depending on how you distinguish between them or 3♥ (lebensohl good hand), but won't be bid 4♥.

4♥ is likely to be at least 6 if not 7 of them, partner is aware you could easily be off shape as opener has a 5 card major, so if he's 5-4 in the majors, you are likely to be short in at least one of them, so he will be considerate in letting you describe your hand unless he has lots of hearts.

[Free]

I'd just pass. I believe partner has a weak distributional hand, hoping for some ♥ support because of our Dbl. We have extra power but we lack support (we also don't have a tophonor).

I play minimulti a lot (but not this weak) and in many cases it pays off to pass if you know you don't have a fit, even if you don't have ♦s! In this case, a singleton or void in one of the Majors is enough to pass with hands up to 7/8/9HCP. Opps don't know which suit opener has, and it's very hard to continue bidding like this. I must admit that I'm pretty afraid ♥ is opener's suit, because this could be the reason for responder to pass 2♦.

[Hanoi5]

I thought of jumping right away to 6NT but I'll KC in hearts first. I suppose I can stop in 5NT if partner has 0 KC.

By the way, that's a mean Multi, do you have a link to the convention?

[MrAce]

 Free, on 2011-June-01, 02:36, said:

I'd just pass. I believe partner has a weak distributional hand, hoping for some ♥ support because of our Dbl. We have extra power but we lack support (we also don't have a tophonor).

I play minimulti a lot (but not this weak) and in many cases it pays off to pass if you know you don't have a fit, even if you don't have ♦s! In this case, a singleton or void in one of the Majors is enough to pass with hands up to 7/8/9HCP. Opps don't know which suit opener has, and it's very hard to continue bidding like this. I must admit that I'm pretty afraid ♥ is opener's suit, because this could be the reason for responder to pass 2♦.

Agreed.

Also does everyone play 5 of our suit in competition for general slam try or asking control in enemy suit ?

[mfa1010]

 MrAce, on 2011-June-01, 04:08, said:

Also does everyone play 5 of our suit in competition for general slam try or asking control in enemy suit ?

Both at the same time!

[Free]

 Hanoi5, on 2011-June-01, 03:53, said:

By the way, that's a mean Multi, do you have a link to the convention?

It's the same like minimulti, but weaker and more agressive (5 card instead of 6 card). Suggested only when NV, which is another reason to pass a lot: we're NV and it's not doubled yet. Usually in combination with normal weak two's in the Majors (which might include 9-11 with a 5 card as well)

[han]

I would pass. Most of the hands which would make 6H really good would bid 2H I think, although it depends a bit on your definition of "constructive". It is conceivable that we miss a good slam.

[benlessard]

I wouldnt pass. I would X pretty light in balancing seat, so if partner thinks hes making 4 i think we can make more

[whereagles]

 Cyberyeti, on 2011-June-01, 02:14, said:

1. No, this can be bid with 3♦ or 2N then 3♦ or 4♦ depending on how you distinguish between them or 3♥ (lebensohl good hand), but won't be bid 4♥.

2. 4♥ is likely to be at least 6 if not 7 of them (...)

1. You are right in theory, but might be wrong in practice. Partners don't always bid by the book. Some are just pragmatists.

2. As above: correct in theory, possibly off in practice.

Maybe my pards are spoiling me, but we win at table, not at the post mortem

[OleBerg]

 whereagles, on 2011-June-02, 05:33, said:

Maybe my pards are spoiling me, but we win at table, not at the post mortem

Fantastic argument, I'm convinced!


Anyway, for me its close betweem pass and 5♥. We might belong in another denomination,but it seems well nigh imposiible to figure it out with any degree af certainty.

I voted 5♥.

[FrancesHinden]

 whereagles, on 2011-June-01, 00:07, said:

Pass. You can't have it all and this could be our last stop, e.g. you might find

xxxx
AQxxx
x
Kxx

across.

You've got me across. You won't find this, which would probably have bid 3H (natural invitational), although 2NT...3C (invitational both majors) is also a possibility..