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What does partner have?

#1 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 02:54

Swiss teams, expert pard and adv opps.



1st dbl is a standard take out dbl. Your general agreements on doubles that apply here are "dbl is for take out until a fit is reached".

Allright, questions:
1. What do you think parter has?
2. What do you bid?

EDIT: fixed hand.

This post has been edited by whereagles: 2011-May-26, 03:41

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#2 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 02:58

I don't know for sure what he has, but luckily I already overbid my hand by a queen, so I can pass and hope for the best.
... and I can prove it with my usual, flawless logic.
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#3 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 03:09

2 before. Now I pass, partner might have diamonds, if he doubles 3 I don't know what I'll do (4?). He might bid 3NT next, though. I don't know what's worse.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#4 User is offline   whereagles 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 03:42

Sorry, I had a card wrong. Your spades are stronger: Axx, not Qxx. Without it 1NT would have been an overbid, of course.

Hand fixed, so have another go.
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#5 User is offline   Hanoi5 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 03:50

I continue passing. I still think partner has diamonds but my hearts don't look good enough for doubling.

 wyman, on 2012-May-04, 09:48, said:

Also, he rates to not have a heart void when he leads the 3.


 rbforster, on 2012-May-20, 21:04, said:

Besides playing for fun, most people also like to play bridge to win


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#6 User is offline   mcphee 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 04:07

Lets see, partner made a t/o dble so my guess is he has it. When 3D is doubled for me that is penalty and extra values. I am not overly fond of the 1NT bid and prefer 2C. I do not think they will make 3H but I am not going to hit it, lets take it in 50's.
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#7 User is offline   gwnn 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 04:09

what the hell now I have to think!

but I'm still not sure what partner has. he has many points of course but not sure what shape. I think I still pass because I'm not sure what to do and my partner knows how much I have.
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#8 User is offline   barryallen 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 05:27

I believe partner is 4-0-3-6 or 4-0-4-5 and his only problem being is how many points do I have in . Let's tell partner I have little value in , but do have goodies elsewhere. To me a bid of 4 would get that across, leaving partner in control to place the final contract in case there has been a misunderstanding. I expect partner to have something like,



On reflection I would add in the hands 4-0-4-5 and 4-1-3-5, a hand where bypassing 3NT with partner having a good stop and a half+ in could well bypass the only game if partner held something like




Either way, I can not see bidding 4 as doing a great deal of damage and possibly making things a whole lot simpler, whether or not the opposition enter the bidding again.
bridge is never always a game of exact, for those times it's all about percentages, partner and the opponents.
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#9 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 05:49

I don't see why we should expect partner to have a heart void. He could have one, but he could also be 4144, 4135, 3145, etc. It's even possible that he has two hearts. BarryAllen's example looks to me like a hand that would bid 3 over 3.

Even so, I don't think we should defend with this hand - we have the least defensive heart holding we could possibly have, and excellent black-suit cards. 4 looks reasonable, but maybe 3 shows this sort of hand, giving partner one last chance to bid 3NT?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#10 User is offline   billw55 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 08:40

I have already showed my hand fairly well, so I see no reason to take a free bid here. I don't mind defending as I expect a dead dummy.
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#11 User is offline   Cyberyeti 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 08:49

I expect partner to be 4135 15+ and the bidder to probably have 11 red cards, this may not defend well at all.

KQJx, x, Axx, AQxxx would not be silly, 3x could be making an overtrick but is more likely just = depending on how I defend while 5 is icy if W is 1651.

With no wasted red suit values I'd be bidding clubs, not sure if 4 or 5.
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#12 User is offline   MrAce 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 14:11

I do not understand the pass. Why are we bidding so shy ?

I am not saying i love this agreement but OP said pd is making a T/O DBL. And now we found a hand that fits perfectly to our agreement and we are about to ruin it by being shy. LHO has a wild red colors hand and i have 1 hcp combined in his suits while i have Axx and Kxxx in pd's suits. Partner can not know if our hands match well or not due to our initial 1 NT response, but we know.

I am bidding 4 if that means choice of games if not i bid at least 3. As long as we bid something here we will be fine, pd will get the msg that i am not interested in defending. Pd may have 5+4 or 4+5-6 which was too good to start with overcall. Cmon now!
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#13 User is offline   nige1 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 14:25

Swiss teams, expert pard and adv opps.
1st dbl is a standard take out dbl. Your general agreements on doubles that apply here are "dbl is for take out until a fit is reached".
Allright, questions:
1. What do you think parter has?
2. What do you bid?

IMO
Partner has at least KQxx x KQxx AQJx
4 = 10, 5 = 9, 3 = 8. 4 = 7, _X = 6, _P = 5

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#14 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 16:03

Mark one more for 5 --not buying the possibility that pard has more than 4 spades, but influenced by the fact that MY pard would not have 5+spades; maybe this pard does, which would make a COG bid better.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#15 User is offline   Phil 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 16:41

View PostMrAce, on 2011-May-26, 14:11, said:

I do not understand the pass. Why are we bidding so shy ?


You don't think pass is forcing?

Partner can have a lot of different patterns - including those with a doubleton (or for that matter, a void) heart! Why are we bidding in front of partner?

We could be crushing 3, or we could make slam.
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#16 User is offline   benlessard 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 16:44

IMO There is 2 style for the double of 3D 1-show at least some desire to play 3Hx (my pov) In wich case its pointless to double 3D with a H void its also pointless to X just based on diamonds.

Or you can play it as a safe take out X of 3H (with a strong take out and most GF hands he can bid 3H).

I prefer option 1 so with 4 trumps and no desire for 3Nt I X, its possible we can make 5C but its possible it goes AD D ruff too. Partner will lead a trump 100% of the time. A lot of hands where 5C is best partner will bid 3H and not wasted his time by a pointless doublle of 3D.

The good point about 5C is that lho will probably not resist leading a S if 1651/1552 shape
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#17 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 16:49

View PostPhil, on 2011-May-26, 16:41, said:

Partner can have a lot of different patterns - including those with a doubleton (or for that matter, a void) heart! Why are we bidding in front of partner?


IMO, we are bidding because he wants input, despite our previous attempt at description (the 1NT advance to the double).

Within the framework of that call, we have an ace and a king in pard's suits; he seems to want our input, and to pass would not show that.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#18 User is offline   dake50 

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Posted 2011-May-26, 20:12

Partner asks if my hearts are good enough to defend.
They are not, Pass.
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#19 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2011-May-27, 02:14

View Postgnasher, on 2011-May-26, 05:49, said:

4 looks reasonable


I don't know what was going though my mind when I said that. 5 looks reasonable, but I still like 3 (which I think is clearly forcing).
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#20 User is offline   P_Marlowe 

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Posted 2011-May-27, 02:34

Hi,

#1 no idea / dont care
#2 X, penalty

With kind regards
Marlowe
With kind regards
Uwe Gebhardt (P_Marlowe)
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