[Hanoi5]

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Even if east supports with a cue-bid, should west continue?

[BunnyGo]

This game looks like it's unlikely to make on a spade lead. I don't think my partnerships would find it.

[MrAce]

Hanoi5, on 2011-May-23, 22:07, said:

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Even if east supports with a cue-bid, should west continue?

If E supports with a cue, not continuing is out of question imo. But not over 2♠. I don't like 2♠ bid by the way.

[han]

I don't like the 2S either.

[menggq]

2♠ was underbid too much,i prefer cue bid 3♦ shows mixed raise S4+ cards that's better than bids 3♠ jump weak directly.

[Free]

West doesn't have anything left to say after 2♠. Btw, I hate 2♠, it's a serious underbid.

[billw55]

Agree to choose 2♦ for E first call. However this bid is the limit of the hand - there is nothing extra. So even if W chooses to invite (probable), E should still decline. Thus landing in 3♠ which is a reasonable spot. To make 10 tricks, W would have to crossruff, but must give up a heart and club before it gets rolling; giving the defense two chances to lead trumps with dummy in view, even if they don't find a trump on opening lead. I don't think this game is making against good defense.

[aguahombre]

menggq, on 2011-May-24, 01:15, said:

2♠ was underbid too much,i prefer cue bid 3♦ shows mixed raise S4+ cards that's better than bids 3♠ jump weak directly.

Yep. And we still won't bid game. There is nothing particular about the overcall that will warrant continuing opposite a mixed raise.

[Phil]

BunnyGo, on 2011-May-23, 22:59, said:

This game looks like it's unlikely to make on a spade lead. I don't think my partnerships would find it.

I don't think 10 tricks are likely on a diamond lead either.

Agree with those who think 3♦ is a better call over the x.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the East hand is way to strong for a single raise, take away all the honors,
just keep the shape, do you raise?
Most likely yes. And given the vulnerability, 2S in enough.

The hand is a mixed raise, if you dont play mixed raises, either make a 3S
preemptive raise, at least you are showing the 4th trump, some shape and
some HCP, which comes at least close, or make the inv.+ raise.

Vs. an inv.+ raise West should show some live, but most likely you will end
up in 3S, East is certainly dead min. for an inv.+ raise.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[Hanoi5]

♣A was well placed and clubs broke 4-3. Spades were 3-1. I lost a club, a heart and a spade. If you win the diamond lead in hand (or the spade lead in hand) and start setting up clubs you'll get to 10 tricks eventually.

[pooltuna]

yes you should reach game. East has more than a good limit raise but I would treat it as a good limit raise. West has an opening hand with 3 quick tricks and a singleton. So with everyone having xtras somebody should move.

[cherdano]

This (bad) game should IMO be reached unless you can diagnose the wastage of the ♣K opposite the singleton. I would bid 1S 3D = mixed raise 4S.

[kenrexford]

I find myself shocked a lot, but perhaps that's because I'm odd. I'll concede that. But, I cannot imagine why the discussion so far has no mention of what I consider obvious. Why no 3♥ call by Advancer?

I mean, if the answer is that a one-under jump shows something special which I play at times), OK. But, if I was across the table from anyone I had not discussed this with, I would expect the mini-splinter to be recognized in this sequence.

At least I would expect someone to notice this.

For that matter, I'm surprised that so many consider 3♦ something other than a mini-splinter also, in this sequence.

[TWO4BRIDGE]

kenrexford, on 2011-May-24, 17:07, said:

I find myself shocked a lot, but perhaps that's because I'm odd. I'll concede that. But, I cannot imagine why the discussion so far has no mention of what I consider obvious. Why no 3♥ call by Advancer?

I mean, if the answer is that a one-under jump shows something special which I play at times), OK. But, if I was across the table from anyone I had not discussed this with, I would expect the mini-splinter to be recognized in this sequence.

At least I would expect someone to notice this.

For that matter, I'm surprised that so many consider 3♦ something other than a mini-splinter also, in this sequence.

I too thought about the 3♥-jump, but--in competition--that would be a fit-showing-jump .

In fact, if Advancer's hand had been a just a little better, he could have made a 3♣  fit-showing-jump!

I thought mini-splinters long ago lost favor and were replaced with fit-showing-jumps in the following instances:
1) as a passed hand or
2) in competition.

Splinters still exist--but only as double-jumps.

The jump-cue also used to be a mini-splinter ( eg. 3♦ here ) but lost out to the mixed raise w/4 card support.

[cherdano]

kenrexford, on 2011-May-24, 17:07, said:

I find myself shocked a lot, but perhaps that's because I'm odd. I'll concede that. But, I cannot imagine why the discussion so far has no mention of what I consider obvious. Why no 3♥ call by Advancer?

I mean, if the answer is that a one-under jump shows something special which I play at times), OK. But, if I was across the table from anyone I had not discussed this with, I would expect the mini-splinter to be recognized in this sequence.

At least I would expect someone to notice this.

For that matter, I'm surprised that so many consider 3♦ something other than a mini-splinter also, in this sequence.

Ken, really? Still getting shocked that others don't play the same agreements as you do?

Here are some common meanings for the 3♥ bid:
1. natural and weak
2. fit-showing
3. natural and forcing (since 2♥ is non-forcing)

As for 3♦, I do think it's most common to play 2D = high-card based invitational raise, 3D= mixed raise, 3S = weak. The mixed raise is much more common than the diamond mini-splinter of course, and (IMO) an important hand to show.

[whereagles]

Good hand for a mixed raise by advancer, yes. Not that overcall would bid game after it, but nevertheless...

[benlessard]

the best i can come with is

1s--2d--2h!--2s

With one of my king surely wasted i think 2S is clear
i dont like to go to 3 level when i can avoid it and still invite.

[dake50]

We've already kept them out of 4H
- making if S:3-1 and CA>CK, both likely.

[gwnn]

whereagles, on 2011-May-25, 02:48, said:

Good hand for a mixed raise by advancer, yes. Not that overcall would bid game after it, but nevertheless...

West could bid 3♥ last train style and East could think he has a maximum. I am not claiming that I would do both of these but it would be cool if it happened and I consider both actions in the realm of possibility. Of course, sometimes I can get to very bad games with actions that are in the realm of possibility as well. That's just what happens when you overcall with a wide range.