[luke warm]

well? i'll go first... best thing i've seen since sopranos... maybe better

[jjbrr]

♥khaleesi

[Elianna]

Adam's favorite part was when Jon was stopped and his friends recited the Night's Watch Oath. My favorite was when the NW set off in force northwards.

The dragons looked a bit too cute to me. But Adam seemed to like that scene. I don't really know why.

I can't believe that I have to wait for April AGAIN! It should come around quickly, though, it feels like just yesterday that GRRM was giving casting clues and I couldn't wait a year then for the first episode.

[PassedOut]

 Elianna, on 2011-June-20, 14:36, said:

The dragons looked a bit too cute to me. But Adam seemed to like that scene. I don't really know why.

I liked that scene too.

[jjbrr]

 Elianna, on 2011-June-20, 14:36, said:

Adam's favorite part was when Jon was stopped and his friends recited the Night's Watch Oath. My favorite was when the NW set off in force northwards.

The dragons looked a bit too cute to me. But Adam seemed to like that scene. I don't really know why.

I can't believe that I have to wait for April AGAIN! It should come around quickly, though, it feels like just yesterday that GRRM was giving casting clues and I couldn't wait a year then for the first episode.

I didn't realize last night was the season finale until you posted this. Sigh.

[luke warm]

 PassedOut, on 2011-June-20, 14:40, said:

I liked that scene too.

lol... and why not? it had everything, including dragons... i actually thought the dragons looked pretty good... they'd better mature quickly though...

[Elianna]

 jjbrr, on 2011-June-20, 15:00, said:

I didn't realize last night was the season finale until you posted this. Sigh.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[PassedOut]

 luke warm, on 2011-June-20, 15:33, said:

lol... and why not? it had everything, including dragons... i actually thought the dragons looked pretty good... they'd better mature quickly though...

Yep, the dire wolves started out cute too...

[allen333]

I loved it! For those of you who read the books and watched the series would you recommend that those of us who have not read the books still need to read them?

Loved the cliffhanger ending!

[blackshoe]

"Need"? Maybe not. OTOH, they're worth reading.

[JLOGIC]

 allen333, on 2011-June-26, 14:45, said:

I loved it! For those of you who read the books and watched the series would you recommend that those of us who have not read the books still need to read them?

Loved the cliffhanger ending!

I don't agree with the characterization of the ending as a cliffhanger. Maybe it is because of the low standards that hollywood has set for us, but generally something like episode 9 or the climax that changes everything is the finale, that is the true cliffhanger. Then you have no idea what to expect for the next season, you have no idea what the reactions will be, and the idea is simply to force you to have to watch when the next season starts to find out. Then the first episode of the next season outlines what the conflict will be, etc. That is terrible writing to me.

Here, I feel like the finale actually resolved a lot of questions, and a lot of the main story lines opened in the season. Yes, it showed us what to expect for the next season, but to me that isn't a cliffhanger. We are not left wondering if Dany will simply die or have to flee after drogos death, she has dragons. Sure, we don't know what the ramifications of those dragons will be but presumably much of her season 2 plotline will focus on that, it's not like we're gonna get a quick fix.

Likewise, the other huge development is that they are calling Robb the king of the north, and their loyalty is with him. To me that is some resolution on his plotline, while also building for season 2, presumably much of the stark plotline in season 2 will focus on that.

We are not wondering what Arya is going to do, we get her general plan.

We know Jon Snow is going to be actively fighting the war north of the wall, and is committed to that. There is not really a cliff hanger, his story line is built up for season 2.

We know that after all this Tyrion will be hand of the king, that is pretty awesome to think about when you think back to the scene of him smacking Joffrey. Again, the long term plan for him is outlined and we know going into season 2 to to expect that.

Basically I'm saying that I really like that they gave us an outline for what is going to be built upon for the numerous storylines in season 2. They did not just use a cheap "OMG THIS IS THE CLIMAX, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL HAPPEN NEXT SEE YOU IN A YEAR" type of thing. The story is interesting enough without all that, and we are only at the beginning, and the writers seem to know that.

I have to say that though Ned dying was one of the most emotional moments I've had from a TV show, it was also a great moment. Ned was SUPPOSED to die, his honor and naivety just were not going to fly in Kings Landing, especially with Robert dead, and it was obvious. As Cersei said "You either win, or you die," and Ned was not going to do what it took to win. That is not really a commentary on whether it was all worth it for him, but the reality of the situation was he was going to get eaten alive in that world, and he did. The only reason it was a shocking moment was because it went against what we're used to seeing on TV/movies, the protagonist being protected in unrealistic ways. It is funny that what I liked most about this FANTASY genre show was that it was so REALISTIC. The setting of the world may have included things like white walkers, zombies, etc, but it was not rigged to protect certain people, everything that happened in the context of that reality was realistic, and the characters were true to themselves.

This show is not about good and evil or a protagonist with a happy ending, in fact there arguably is no protagonist/main character, it is simply about telling a story from many perspectives in this cluster***** of a world. It reminds me of The Wire... "All in the game, yo."

I do have to say that I am concerned about the dragons, I hope they don't become a focal point or something that defines Dany, her development as a powerful woman was one of my favorite stories told in season 1. I am also pretty pumped about seeing Robb develop, he seems like he might become a more pragmatic version of Ned. And obv Arya is my fav character so I'm really interested in where her story goes... the actress playing her might be one of the best young teen actresses I've ever seen. All that said, I think the odds of me waiting for next season and not reading all the books are pretty slim at this point! This was easily my favorite season 1 of any TV show ever though.

[Mbodell]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-June-27, 22:19, said:

I have to say that though Ned dying was one of the most emotional moments I've had from a TV show, it was also a great moment. Ned was SUPPOSED to die, his honor and naivety just were not going to fly in Kings Landing, especially with Robert dead, and it was obvious. As Cersei said "You either win, or you die," and Ned was not going to do what it took to win. That is not really a commentary on whether it was all worth it for him, but the reality of the situation was he was going to get eaten alive in that world, and he did. The only reason it was a shocking moment was because it went against what we're used to seeing on TV/movies, the protagonist being protected in unrealistic ways. It is funny that what I liked most about this FANTASY genre show was that it was so REALISTIC. The setting of the world may have included things like white walkers, zombies, etc, but it was not rigged to protect certain people, everything that happened in the context of that reality was realistic, and the characters were true to themselves.

I felt the same way in the book. I think it is even more surprising in that context where Ned is the closest thing to a protagonist, and he gets killed in a way that is surprising (because you are expecting him to go to the wall).

 JLOGIC, on 2011-June-27, 22:19, said:

This show is not about good and evil or a protagonist with a happy ending, in fact there arguably is no protagonist/main character, it is simply about telling a story from many perspectives in this cluster***** of a world. It reminds me of The Wire... "All in the game, yo."

I agree that it very much fits The Wire framework. And that the realism makes it more compelling because you aren't quite sure what will happen, who will survive, and where the story will take us.

But it isn't compartmentalized the way The Wire was where each season focuses on a different perspective (drugs, port, city/police gov't, education, press) but instead mostly follows everything at once (great houses [Starks, Lannisters, Baratheon], functionaries [Maesters, small council, Varys, Littlefinger], the North [Night's watch, wildlings, Osha], minor houses, 'exiles' [Daenerys, Viserys, Jorah Mormont], religion [mainly heart trees versus sept, the High Septon]). We get a little bit more of some and less of others as time moves on (more more, than less), but it isn't split quite as neatly.

 JLOGIC, on 2011-June-27, 22:19, said:

And obv Arya is my fav character so I'm really interested in where her story goes... the actress playing her might be one of the best young teen actresses I've ever seen. All that said, I think the odds of me waiting for next season and not reading all the books are pretty slim at this point! This was easily my favorite season 1 of any TV show ever though.

I agree that Arya is terrific (and her character is even better in the book, IMHO). Arya and Tyrion are my two favorite characters.

 Elianna, on 2011-April-28, 00:05, said:

This is not a spoiler, but what sealed the deal on the Cat hate from me is in the book, during Jon's goodbye to Bran, she told him that she wished it were Jon that had fallen.

I don't think Cat is that bad in the books. She loves her family, tries to do what she views as right, and has mostly adjusted to the North and her change in husband. I agree that she isn't quite as Noble as Eddard (but who is), and that she doesn't treat Jon well (but she doesn't have him killed, the way another great Lady generally tries to treat her husband's bastards). But some people from the first book who I think are more hateful, evil, and/or villainous include:

Tywin Lannister
Cersei Lannister
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain that Rides)
Joffrey Lannister
Lysa Tully
Janos Slynt
Alliser Thorne
Lord Walder Frey (the late lord Frey)

Even of the early Stark clan, I find Sansa more trying and hateful and problematic. And Sansa's worst betrayal is cut out of the TV show.

It think Cat's more in the conflicted folks including:

Jaime Lannister
Robert Barratheon
Sandor Clegane (the Hound)
Littlefinger
Varys

Not that I guess the second list is that great when the first three are all attempting (or succeeding) in killing children and the last two are such schemers, but Cat ought be above them as well, on reflection. So she's "better" and "more virtuous" than at least half the characters, so I'm not sure she's particularly worthy of scorn.

[Elianna]

 Mbodell, on 2011-June-28, 01:23, said:

I agree that Arya is terrific (and her character is even better in the book, IMHO). Arya and Tyrion are my two favorite characters.

I know that this is a minority, unpopular opinion, but I did not like Arya in the books. I found her annoying. In the TV show, though, I thought that she was great, and now I really like her as a character. Bookwise, my favorite characters were Tyrion, two people introduced in book 2 (I don't want to spoil book 2 by naming them and saying anything about them), and two people who get more rounded out in later books (again, don't want to spoil anything).

Quote

I don't think Cat is that bad in the books. She loves her family, tries to do what she views as right, and has mostly adjusted to the North and her change in husband. I agree that she isn't quite as Noble as Eddard (but who is), and that she doesn't treat Jon well (but she doesn't have him killed, the way another great Lady generally tries to treat her husband's bastards). But some people from the first book who I think are more hateful, evil, and/or villainous include:

Tywin Lannister
Cersei Lannister
Gregor Clegane (The Mountain that Rides)
Joffrey Lannister
Lysa Tully
Janos Slynt
Alliser Thorne
Lord Walder Frey (the late lord Frey)

Even of the early Stark clan, I find Sansa more trying and hateful and problematic. And Sansa's worst betrayal is cut out of the TV show.

<I think that some of this second list are spoilers for the rest of the books, so I've deleted them so that they don't get repeated. If you want to debate it, let's take it to pm> So she's "better" and "more virtuous" than at least half the characters, so I'm not sure she's particularly worthy of scorn.

But that's the thing. She's DEPICTED as being among the "good" people, and better and virtuous, and she's definitely all "holier than thou" throughout the books, which makes her much more annoying and less of a person I would care about than those that just come straight out with their villainy. I don't base my like/dislike of characters based on whether they're one of the good guys or the bad guys, or even on their virtue, but more on whether or not they are entertaining and if I can relate (or understand/sympathize) to their decision-making process (simplifying a bit...)

[mgoetze]

Apparently amazon.de screwed up, and a bridge player I know is now already in possession of the 5th book.

[hrothgar]

 Elianna, on 2011-June-28, 10:15, said:

I know that this is a minority, unpopular opinion, but I did not like Arya in the books. I found her annoying. In the TV show, though, I thought that she was great, and now I really like her as a character. Bookwise, my favorite characters were Tyrion, two people introduced in book 2 (I don't want to spoil book 2 by naming them and saying anything about them), and two people who get more rounded out in later books (again, don't want to spoil anything).

I'm in the process of re-reading the books now in preparation for book 5 coming out.

I always sympathized with Varys and the Hound...

[babalu1997]

 hrothgar, on 2011-June-29, 14:49, said:

I'm in the process of re-reading the books now in preparation for book 5 coming out.

I always sympathized with Varys and the Hound...

did syrio die?
i hope not
i wanted to see more

[hrothgar]

BTW: In case people don't know, book 5 is now out...

George R.R. Martin is doing a signing in Burlington MA tonight which I must sadly miss due to end of quarter bullshit.

[Elianna]

 hrothgar, on 2011-July-12, 07:23, said:

BTW: In case people don't know, book 5 is now out...

George R.R. Martin is doing a signing in Burlington MA tonight which I must sadly miss due to end of quarter bullshit.

26% along. My goal is 50% by this evening. That may not fly with others in this house who seem to believe that I should interact with them. We'll see.

[xxhong]

I still don't know after the first 4 books.

 babalu1997, on 2011-July-10, 18:04, said:

did syrio die?
i hope not
i wanted to see more

[Elianna]

 Elianna, on 2011-July-12, 17:25, said:

26% along. My goal is 50% by this evening. That may not fly with others in this house who seem to believe that I should interact with them. We'll see.

Finished as of this morning. It does include POV characters from FfC as it goes further in the timeline from there. But I won't say anymore and spoil it.

Oh, except to say that you shouldn't read the appendix before you read the book. There are some mild spoilers in it.