[hrothgar]

 mike777, on 2011-April-27, 23:36, said:

3) Finally to end the second episode a beloved and loyal pet is murdered by I think one of the good guys(father).

Couple points worth clarifying

1. Abandon any notion that you will be able to identify "good guys". There are definitely characters for whom you'll have zero sympathy, however, those are few and far between. (Even characters like "the Hound" who ran down the servent boy in last week's episode exhibit some traits that are sympathetic and others than are less so). There are other characters who start out very sympathetic and devolve over time. Simple put, the world is full of shades of grey.

2. Ned Stark is definitely one of the characters that you are suppose to sympathize with and the act of killing the pet is meant to elict sympathy for him. "Lady" was going to be put down one way or another. Stark's decision to kill the pet himself was a protest against the King. (King Robert was willing to order the act done, but wasn't willing/able to do the deed himself. Stark wasn't willing to gainsay the King, but also wouldn't delegate the task to avoid getting his hands dirty)

[hrothgar]

 mike777, on 2011-April-27, 23:36, said:

If I understand the premise these kingdoms have been around 8,000 years with no progress beyond the "dark ages".

Given your economic leanings, I was quite sure that you had mastered "Willing suspension of disbelief"

[hrothgar]

 1eyedjack, on 2011-April-23, 05:31, said:

Interesting that Hrothgar ranks Parks and Recreation up there. Not seen any of it yet and may have a go based on this. Wiki says that it received mixed reviews and was a spin-off from NBC's hit show "the Office". The original "Office" was a UK production featuring Ricky Gervais which I though at the time was really good, but when they announced that it was being sold over the pond I wondered whether it would really suit the sense of humour over there (most UK hit comedies flop in USA).

Parks and Recreation is stylistically and thematically similar to The Office, however, I wouldn't ever think to call it a spin off.

"Joanie loves Chacci" was a spin off from "Happy Days"
"The Ropers" was a spin off from "Three's Company"
"The Misadventures of Sheriff Lobo" was a spinoff from "BJ and the Bear".

"Parks and Recreation" and "The Office" fail to share common characters, locations, or conventions.

I certainly agree that many UK comedies fail when they try to cross the pond. However, some of America's best beloved sit coms are based on UK series (Threes Company, All in the Family, and now The Office are the best examples). I think that the US version of The Office is (arguably) better than the UK original.

For what its worth, the best TV series of 2011 (or at least the one that I liked most) was called "Episodes". The entire conceit was attempting to take a witty British comedy and repackage it for the US market.

For me, one of the great puzzles in life was what went wrong with "Coupling?" The UK version of Coupling was absolutely hysterical. Not sure if I have ever laughed as hard as I did during "Jane and the Truth Snake" (I'm still hopelessly in love with Gina Bellman). The US version was yanked almost as fast as "The Paul Reiser Show"...

[xxhong]

ME! The TV series is pretty good. The pace is a little too fast to those who never read the novel though. Also, it's a pity that "yet not all bastards need be dwarfs" was cut in the TV series.

[blackshoe]

Catelyn Stark's treatment of Jon Snow grates on modern sensibilities, but look at it from her (medieval) point of view. Snow is her husband's bastard son by some unknown woman, who may have ambitions of her own for her son. Lord Eddard treats him almost as well as one of his legitimate sons. Catelyn may well see Jon Snow as a threat to her children. IIRC, Jon is older than Robb, Catelyn's oldest. If Eddard were to "recognize" him, he would (I think, it's been a while since I've read the books) become the heir to Winterfell, supplanting Robb. Catelyn is a woman of her time. Small wonder she doesn't like Jon Snow, nor want him around.

HBO is doing a good job with this series, imo. The mass market is fickle though, so who knows?

[awm]

 blackshoe, on 2011-April-28, 18:41, said:

Catelyn Stark's treatment of Jon Snow grates on modern sensibilities, but look at it from her (medieval) point of view. Snow is her husband's bastard son by some unknown woman, who may have ambitions of her own for her son. Lord Eddard treats him almost as well as one of his legitimate sons. Catelyn may well see Jon Snow as a threat to her children. IIRC, Jon is older than Robb, Catelyn's oldest. If Eddard were to "recognize" him, he would (I think, it's been a while since I've read the books) become the heir to Winterfell, supplanting Robb. Catelyn is a woman of her time. Small wonder she doesn't like Jon Snow, nor want him around.

HBO is doing a good job with this series, imo. The mass market is fickle though, so who knows?

In the books, Robb is actually slightly older. He was conceived prior to the rebellion against the Targaryens whereas Jon was (supposedly) conceived during the war. Actually what Catelyn says in the books is worse... the exact quote to Jon when he is saying goodbye to comatose Bran is "It should have been you" which is quite a bit worse than what she said on TV. They do have some backstory though that while bastards are common, they are not usually taken in and raised by the father.

[y66]

We're too cheap to pay for cable. Will put this on my Netflix saved list.

[JLOGIC]

I'm trying not to read this thread for fear of TV spoilers if I haven't read the books. Are there spoilers in any of the posts related to the books in this thread? I understand if there is, but if there isn't I'd like to read this. If someone could answer this, thx.

[y66]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-April-29, 12:08, said:

I'm trying not to read this thread for fear of TV spoilers if I haven't read the books. Are there spoilers in any of the posts related to the books in this thread? I understand if there is, but if there isn't I'd like to read this. If someone could answer this, thx.

There are spoilers in some of the posts in this thread.

[Elianna]

 JLOGIC, on 2011-April-29, 12:08, said:

I'm trying not to read this thread for fear of TV spoilers if I haven't read the books. Are there spoilers in any of the posts related to the books in this thread? I understand if there is, but if there isn't I'd like to read this. If someone could answer this, thx.

Don't read Fluffy's posts, and don't highlight my posts. But you can click on the picture of Adam and me!

[kenberg]

Being a little behind, I watched the first episode last night. I am working on whether I will continue.

I woke up about 4 this morning thinking of the kid that got thrown off the cliff. As he was climbing up I mentioned to my wife that when I was ten or so I had climbed up something not as high but with similar footings and places to grab hold. I got high enough up so that when I couldn't find more footings higher up and couldn't find the ones I had come up on I figured I was in trouble. I calmed myself down, explored around, and got to the top. All in all, a useful experience with a couple of lessons: Look before you leap (or climb) and, if you get in a jam there may be a way out if you don't panic. It didn't go so well for this kid.

I don't much see the point of watching something unless you get involved with the characters. This is pretty brutal. I think that it is well done and I thought the early photography of riding through the snow was beautiful. Still, do I really want to watch ongoing (I presume it is ongoing) brutality? I have, by and large, led a very safe and quiet life. I intend my life to be such that the exceptions to the "by and large" are as few as possible. Whether I want to watch a series about a life that I gratefully do not lead, I dunno.

But I do think it is well acted, photographed and directed.

[blackshoe]

 Elianna, on 2011-April-29, 20:40, said:

But you can click on the picture of Adam and me!

Did that. Got the spinning circle of death. Twice.

[allen333]

I suspect I am representative of the "mass market." I didn't read the books, and I only watched the first two episodes based on this thread. I loved them, and cannot wait for more!

p.s. If you have HBO, you can use HBO GO to watch all things HBO online.

[Elianna]

 blackshoe, on 2011-April-30, 07:12, said:

Did that. Got the spinning circle of death. Twice.

Try this: https://picasaweb.go...I_bqNCtpO2oigE#

[blackshoe]

That worked. Thanks Elianna. Nice pics. That throne doesn't look very comfortable.

[Elianna]

 blackshoe, on 2011-May-02, 13:54, said:

That worked. Thanks Elianna. Nice pics. That throne doesn't look very comfortable.

It actually was disappointingly comfortable.

[blackshoe]

 Elianna, on 2011-May-02, 14:22, said:

It actually was disappointingly comfortable.

Heh. Figures.

[vuroth]

 Fluffy, on 2011-April-18, 07:35, said:

Now that I remember, there are some characters that you know they have to die because of how the plot goes, but the way they die is completelly artificial, for example I remember the main character of the first book, (Stark?) he does something so stupid that could be considered suicide, and he is suposed to be smart. It made no sense to me, if you need the plot to kill someone, at least you should pay more attention to how you kill a main character.

I, too, found Martin made characters act out of character in order to advance the plot he wanted. Couldn't make it past the first book.

I might be tempted to watch the series at some point. I suspect having it screenplayed might eliminate Martin's writing weaknesses.

[phil_20686]

@ those who red the books:

Does anyone else suspect that Jon snow is actually the son of Lyanna Stark. Too much of the history of the Rebellion doesnt make proper sense. Rhaegar apparently loved Lyanna Stark, despite being married to Elia of Dorne. After Brandon Stark and Rickard stark were murdered he "kidnapped" her. She was later found dead in a tower guarded by 3 members of the kingsguard, including their Lord Commander. Who dies to protect the corpse of a prisoner when your king is already dead? Moreover, Rhaegar was widely thought of as being honourable and a good man, so the story that he captured and raped Lyanna doesn't really seem likely. Not to mention that Eddard says he kept a promise to Lyanna for which he has "borne a heavy cost". It would just make sense if in the tower was the infant son of Lyanna and Rhaeger. It would explain the presence of the king's guard, and the abduction would be "protection" in case the Mad king decided to execute Lyanna aswell. Also, it would mean that Ned never actually broke his vows which seems more in keeping with his character anyway. Finally, alledgedly, Howland Reed is the only person on the show other than Lord stark who supposedly knows who Jon's Mother was, and it just happens that he is the only other survivor of the fight with the kingsguard to rescue Lyanna. I will therefore put forward the theory that Jon stark is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and that Lyanna died in childbirth, but made Ned promise to hide Jon's identity in case Robert decided to execute any remaining heirs to the throne.

[blackshoe]

Interesting theory. I don't think there's anything in the books that directly supports it (yet), but... "A Song of Ice and Fire". I think "ice" refers to House Stark, and "fire" to House Targaryen, and I've always felt that it will be Jon who dances with Daenerys later in the series (the fifth book, due out July 12th, is A Dance With Dragons).