[helene_t]

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It is a pretty sick society that glorifies war and advertises soldiering as a career path.

Agree, but: Welcome to the real World, Winston.

Look, on those career days they will have all kind of scum: evil bureaucrats who waste taxpayers´ money just to create income for themselves and their friends, evil corporate managers doing the same with the shareholders' (i.e. members of pension funds) money, antipatic salesmen and PR people creating artificial needs for useless or even harmful products, scientists inventing more effective ways of torturing lab animals and damaging the environment for fun etc etc. It's important that children get a realistic view on their options on the job market.

Maybe those kids imagined a soldier being some kind of zombie serial killer. Now if some of the turn up at career days and kids get to learn that they are basically just people like their parents and teachers, it may even be a good thing. And if the soldiers try to brain wash the children with some crazy wat romantism then the teachers have plenty of time to set it straight afterwards.

[blackshoe]

In David Weber's "Honorverse" stories, the Peoples' Republic of Haven's Committee for State Security assigned political "commissioners" to every senior Naval officer to oversee their actions, approve or disapprove them (even in the midst of a battle) and generally make sure that the officers remained loyal to the central government — or were purged, as "necessary". Given our teachers are obviously politically unreliable, that's what we need — a "commissioner" to oversee every teacher at all times in the classroom, approve or disapprove their actions on the sport, and report on them to higher authority, who will decide whether to allow them to continue to teach, or have them, their families, and their friends and colleagues all shot.

[Winstonm]

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It's important that children get a realistic view on their options on the job market.

I'm fairly confident that 5-year-olds don't give a rat's ass about the job market - real or imaginary. Santa and the Tooth Fairy are the only jobs they really care about.

[blackshoe]

helene_t, on Nov 21 2009, 03:20 PM, said:

Look, on those career days they will have all kind of scum: evil bureaucrats who waste taxpayers´ money just to create income for themselves and their friends, evil corporate managers doing the same with the shareholders' (i.e. members of pension funds) money, antipatic salesmen and PR people creating artificial needs for useless or even harmful products, scientists inventing more effective ways of torturing lab animals and damaging the environment for fun etc etc. It's important that children get a realistic view on their options on the job market.

Maybe those kids imagined a soldier being some kind of zombie serial killer. Now if some of the turn up at career days and kids get to learn that they are basically just people like their parents and teachers, it may even be a good thing. And if the soldiers try to brain wash the children with some crazy wat romantism then the teachers have plenty of time to set it straight afterwards.

Apparently all career choices are evil.

You won't find many people who have actually been to war who try to glorify it.

John Adams said:

I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce, and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.

Adams unfortunately neglected to consider accurately the nature of humanity - war is with us still, and will be so, I expect, for a long time to come.

[luke warm]

Winstonm, on Nov 21 2009, 03:09 PM, said:

It is a pretty sick society that glorifies war and advertises soldiering as a career path.

are those the same thing?

[kenberg]

Winston notes that lacking details we are (and I hope Winston includes himself) making guesses about those details. Of course we do not know how this came about. But general views emerge anyway. For example, particularly seeking out soldiers to participate would not seem right to me, nor would excluding or discouraging soldiers/ For kids that age, I would hope it is some kids get their parents to drop in and discuss what they do for a living. Drug dealers would not be acceptable and would not be likely to come. I would hope we could go easy on the lap dancers, but I wouldn't go ape if one, someone's mother, showed up. Or a lobbyist for a military contractor. Over the years, kids will see a lot and they will put it together. To choose, you must first see the choices.


Most of these things that upset the adults are taken in stride by the kids. I fondly remember the Halloween bonfires at the playground during WWII. Hitler, Mussolini and Hirohito, all doused in gasoline and flaming away. Made me the serial killer I am today. No it didn't.

Understanding the adult world is an ongoing process. I wouldn't care much for someone coming in with a powerpoint presentation, I much prefer a parent coming in and chatting, but even the powerpoint could be useful. The kids can use it to tone up their skills in recognizing bullshit.

[Winstonm]

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Winston notes that lacking details we are (and I hope Winston includes himself)

No doubt none of us - myself included - know the particulars of this career day.

I have to agree that kids are good at digging out from under the bullshit, but the story here is not the kids. We do not know what exactly happened. If some kid's father was a soldier and came to the school that is no big deal; however, if the U.S. Army responded to a elementary school career day that would be ridiculous, IMO.

It's not about the kids - it's about what the adults did or didn't do.

[barmar]

While we may not know the specifics of this career day, most of us are familiar with the general practice. We've either been students at schools that had them, or have been parents who participated in them. I think it's relatively safe to assume that this was a typical career day, where parents came in and talked for a few minutes about what they do. Since it was for kindergarteners, I'd expect the level of discourse to be comparable to a Sesame Street episode. It's not a high school career fair, where students are actively exploring their future prospects. It's just a way for children to learn about what people do.

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And I wouldn't expect 5-year-olds to understand any explanation - but that is not justification for lying. Maybe a better argument for not being there in the first place?

It's not lying, it's simplifying to their level of understanding. 5-year-olds don't understand grey areas. The people that soldiers kill are our enemies, and in a simple universe where there's only good and bad, enemies are bad.

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Did the soldier mention the horrors of war? Did he talk about all of the PTSD vets? Did he mention that the US security and it's defense is determined by economic profit incentives?

Do you really expect someone to talk about these things to 5-year-olds? How could a child that age possibly understand anything about "economic profit incentives"? I suppose you could try to explain that it's like someone who has all the toys, but doesn't let anyone else play with them, so we have to make them let us. But is kindergarten Career Day really the appropriate place for teaching about politics, foreign policy, and political corruption?

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I'm fairly confident that 5-year-olds don't give a rat's ass about the job market - real or imaginary. Santa and the Tooth Fairy are the only jobs they really care about.

I think typical job aspirations at that age are astronaut, cowboy, and fireman for boys, princess and movie star for girls.

[ArtK78]

It is clear that every child should be assigned a permanent bubble. They shall live their entire lives inside that bubble, free from the influences of the real world.

Come on, people. The idea that it is wrong to have a career day in school which exposes 5 and 6 year olds to the careers of their classmates is bizarre. This is not indoctrination - it is real life. Even 5 and 6 year olds live in this world. And that is part of their education.

If one of the students has a parent in the military, that is something that they should be proud of, not ashamed of.

[jdonn]

Winston I mean this in the nicest possible way.... You've officially gone bonkers!

[kenberg]

As the Welcome Wagon chair of the state of Bonkers, I extend greetings to all those new residents officially residing with us. There will be a group chant this coming Saturday to celebrate Winston's arrival.

[Winstonm]

kenberg, on Nov 23 2009, 11:00 AM, said:

As the Welcome Wagon chair of the state of Bonkers, I extend greetings to all those new residents officially residing with us. There will be a group chant this coming Saturday to celebrate Winston's arrival.

Thenk you, thenk you very much.