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How sick?

#1 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-07, 21:05

♠Kxx ♥QJxx ♦QJ10x ♣J10

If you would ever do this, at what colors, what seat, or what form of scoribng would you double for takeout if RHO opens 1♦?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#2 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2008-June-07, 21:11

kenrexford, on Jun 7 2008, 10:05 PM, said:

♠Kxx ♥QJxx ♦QJ10x ♣J10

If you would ever do this, at what colors, what seat, or what form of scoribng would you double for takeout if RHO opens 1♦?

If i never wanted to play with my current partner again, doubling with this hand is a good way to get him to tell me that he never wants to sit opposite me again. That is about the only reason I see for doubling with this hand. I mean seriously, no sane person would double (psychic double due to state of match, yadda, yadda, i can see some people say).
--Ben--

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Posted 2008-June-07, 21:36

kenrexford, on Jun 7 2008, 10:05 PM, said:

♠Kxx ♥QJxx ♦QJ10x ♣J10

If you would ever do this, at what colors, what seat, or what form of scoribng would you double for takeout if RHO opens 1♦?

I am guessing you meant if RHO opens 1C? I would never do it with this hand, I just think it's too much. If you actually meant Xing a 1D opener then I gotta say wtf lol.
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#4 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-June-07, 22:24

I would never double 1♣, which is what I assume the OP meant.
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#5 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-07, 22:37

Nope -- I actually meant 1♦.

Absolutely no takers for doubling when white-v-red opposite a pass from partner?

What is the minimum you'd have to change?
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#6 User is offline   rogerclee 

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Posted 2008-June-07, 22:40

kenrexford, on Jun 7 2008, 09:37 PM, said:

Nope -- I actually meant 1♦.

When I think of a sick bid, I think of a bid which isn't by the book but has some tactical merit which makes it worth considering.

This isn't sick, it's just dumb.
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Posted 2008-June-07, 22:57

kenrexford, on Jun 7 2008, 11:37 PM, said:

Nope -- I actually meant 1♦.

Absolutely no takers for doubling when white-v-red opposite a pass from partner?

What is the minimum you'd have to change?

There is no hand that I would X with this shape unless I was 19+
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#8 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 02:57

Very.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#9 User is offline   skjaeran 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 03:08

Obviously I'd only double if I was too strong to overcall 1NT.
Else, doubling isn't just sick, it's plain stupid.
Kind regards,
Harald
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#10 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 06:59

What about AKQ A432 5432 A10?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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#11 User is offline   andy_h 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 08:45

kenrexford, on Jun 8 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

♠Kxx ♥QJxx ♦QJ10x ♣J10

If you would ever do this, at what colors, what seat, or what form of scoribng would you double for takeout if RHO opens 1♦?

I would never do it. Though I'm curious, what brings you the idea of it?
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#12 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 11:59

andy_h, on Jun 8 2008, 09:45 AM, said:

kenrexford, on Jun 8 2008, 01:05 PM, said:

♠Kxx ♥QJxx ♦QJ10x ♣J10

If you would ever do this, at what colors, what seat, or what form of scoribng would you double for takeout if RHO opens 1♦?

I would never do it. Though I'm curious, what brings you the idea of it?

Well, I had this exact hand and was wondering multiple things at the same time when I looked at it.

My first thought was whether anyone would actually double with this (not screwing around) after a 1♣ opening.

I was then wondering whether anyone, if they would double with this holding after a 1♣ opening, would double with this over a nebulous 1♦ opening, and whether 1♦!-X-P-2♣-P-2♦ is an Equal Level Coversion auction.

Thus, the ultimate question seemed to be whether anyone would double with this holding after this specific auction, when white versus red:

P-1♦(neb)-X?

...planning an ELC 2♦ if necessary.

Then, I wondered if I would actually ELC with J10 if I did double.

The hand is a poor choice for discussion, but a more interesting hand like ♠KJx ♥AJ9x ♦QJxx ♣Qx brings all of these issues closer. ♠KJx ♥AJ9x ♦KJxxx ♣x is a really interesting NEB 2♦ problem.
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

-P.J. Painter.
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#13 User is offline   jdonn 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 13:20

Ken why do you make these posts?

gnasher, on Jun 8 2008, 07:59 AM, said:

What about AKQ A432 5432 A10?

I don't understand why you would make this post either. What if you get one of them to admit they would double with this carefully constructed hand down to the last spot card even though they said they would never double without 19+ on this shape. Yay you have won the semantics argument!!! Now we are all better bridge players!! I'm probably being a dick since I'm still a little drunk from last night so sorry about that, but you are one of the better players here so you have no reason to make posts that dumb.
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#14 User is offline   gnasher 

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Posted 2008-June-08, 14:31

jdonn, on Jun 8 2008, 08:20 PM, said:

I don't understand why you would make this post either. What if you get one of them to admit they would double with this carefully constructed hand down to the last spot card even though they said they would never double without 19+ on this shape. Yay you have won the semantics argument!!! Now we are all better bridge players!! I'm probably being a dick since I'm still a little drunk from last night so sorry about that, but you are one of the better players here so you have no reason to make posts that dumb.

I wasn't trying to score points, if that's what you mean. The question arose what you'd need to double with this shape, and I think one possibility is a suit-oriented strong notrump without a diamond stop, unsuitable for a 1♥ overcall. I chose the diamond and heart spots to discourage any digressions about partial stops, blockages, and four-card overcalls.

If we're ever going to take an action of this sort, it's going to be an unusual hand. Is it really such a surprise that I produced one?
... that would still not be conclusive proof, before someone wants to explain that to me as well as if I was a 5 year-old. - gwnn
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